Putting Self Care Into Action to Prevent Burnout in the Helping Professions

This is a transcript from our podcast episode published January 31st, 2022. The podcast episode is offered for .1 ASHA CEU (introductory level, professional area). This transcript is made available as a course accommodation for and is supplementary to this episode / course. This transcript is not intended to be used in place of the podcast episode with the exception of course accommodation. Please note: This transcript was created by robots. We do our best to proof read but there is always a chance we miss something. Find a typo? Email us anytime.

A special thanks to our Contributing Editor, Caitlin Akier, for reviewing and editing drafts of our transcripts. Her work helps keep our material accessible.

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[00:01:38] Kate Grandbois: We are so excited for today's topic. We have the great pleasure of welcoming Dr. Julie Slowiak. Welcome Julie. 

[00:01:48] Julie Slowiak: Thank you, Kate. Thank you, Amy. And, um, thank you for the opportunity to be here today and to talk to you about self-care, um, a topic that is so very near and dear to my heart, 

[00:01:58] Amy Wonkka: and so very [00:02:00] important for everybody listening.

Like you said, Julie, you're here to discuss the burnout that occurs in helping professions and how self care strategies can help prevent it such an important topic. I can't wait to talk more about it. Uh, but before we get started, could you please tell us and our listeners just a little bit about yourself?

[00:02:19] Julie Slowiak: Yeah. So, uh, my current position, I'm an associate professor of psychology at the University of Minnesota Duluth. I've been in this position since 2008. And, um, I hail from the, I guess, great Midwest state of Wisconsin. I did my undergraduate degrees in psychology and organizational communication at the University of Wisconsin Eau Claire, uh, left Wisconsin went over across one lake to Michigan and did my master's degree in industrial and organizational psychology. And then my doctorate work in behavior analysis, specializing in organizational behavior management at Western Michigan university. And then I jumped back across the lakes [00:03:00] and found myself at the university of Minnesota Duluth.

So, um, that's a little bit about kind of my academic career and outside of that, I guess, um, I should say that, you know, I have a 13 year old rescue dog named Hurricane. He's been with me since 2010. He, uh, let his little beagle nose gets him in a lot of trouble. So he is a mix of a beagle and a yellow lab.

Looks the size of a beagle, but the look of the yellow lab. And, um, but we adore him and, um, he still keeps us on our toes even at almost 13 years old. Um, actually his birthday is tomorrow or his rescue gotcha day, whatever you want to call it. It's

Kate Grandbois:Oh, that's amazing. 

Julie Slowiak:He gets Haagen-Dazs ice cream with candles in it. So we're super excited to, uh, to celebrate with him. 

[00:03:53] Kate Grandbois:That's amazing. That's awesome. And for anyone listening, I've seen a picture of this dog and Hurricane is really that [00:04:00] adorable. Can you tell us a little bit about, you know, from your academic background, how did you become interested in burnout?

[00:04:06] Julie Slowiak: Yeah. So, as I mentioned, I studied in industrial organizational psychology and organizational behavior management. So I've always been interested in issues related to the workplace. Um, but on a more personal note, I noticed as an early career academic, um, just the demands of the job were wearing me down.

Um, and it was probably, well, I will, I will say I got to the end of my first year in academia and I was like, oh my gosh. If the second year is like this, I'm not coming back. Um, because I just felt so completely overwhelmed by all of the demands that were being put on me as a first year, um, faculty member and just things that, I mean, I didn't really know a lot about what it meant to be a faculty member.

You, you really only see what you observe of, you know, your faculty, um, as you're going through college and graduate. Um, and then, you know, it didn't really get any easier. Um, I [00:05:00] had doubts about whether or not I should go up for tenure. Um, and just through that process, I just felt like I was lacking energy.

I wasn't as interested in things anymore. The research that I had started in graduate school, just wasn't the type of thing that was keeping me, you know, getting up in the morning and getting excited to go to campus and do that research. Um, and so I started to realize that, you know, on personal side, I was really interested in health and wellness and you know, an avid exerciser and those types of things. And I really just started blending. I was like, okay, well, I can see how my personal life is influencing my work life. My work life is influencing my personal life because the demands of work were making me isolate from friends and family members and those types of things.

And so really that's where I started to get interested in how do we create this culture of wellbeing in organizations? Um, and I happen to have, um, I call my work best friend who no longer works with me at the university, but we're still good friends [00:06:00] outside of that, but she was the employee wellness coach on campus.

And she and I started talking and started doing projects together. I started to find other like-minded individuals on campus across other departments who are also interested in this cultural wellbeing idea. And, um, and I was like, This fits. It's not really something that we talk about. And behavior analysis is not something that we talk about in organizational behavior management, or at least at the time we weren't.

But as I started having conversations with colleagues in the field, it was apparent that others were going through or had gone through similar experiences where they felt really burnt out and didn't know what to do to mitigate those symptoms or to, you know, make sure that the, to prevent getting back into that vicious cycle.

Um, if they were able to dig themselves out of it 

[00:06:47] Kate Grandbois: So I have to say, you know, personally, I loved thank you so much for sharing that anecdote and your experience. I have shared that experience, just carrying the burdens of the workplace, particularly working with [00:07:00] individuals who are grieving, not necessarily being trained in counseling to the degree that I needed to be trained in counseling, not necessarily having it pointed out to me that I needed to engage in self-care practices to make my professional skills better.

So I think from a professional and personal note, I'm so excited to be able to share this. I should also say that I got connected with you because I've seen you speak and I've, I've read some of your work. And I was so, I learned so much from your, from the webinars that I've taken of yours. And I'm so excited to share this information with the speech and language pathology community.

So thank you before we even start. Thank you for being here. This is just really going to be great. I'm really excited. But before we get into the fun stuff, the powers that be do require that I read our learning objectives and our financial and nonfinancial disclosures aloud. Sometimes people write in and ask me to skip this part.

I can't ASHA makes me read it. So if you are here with us, then bear with us. We will get through this as quickly as [00:08:00] possible. Our learning objectives for the day: learning objective number one, define the concept of burnout and give at least three examples of signs and symptoms of burnout. Learning objective number two, describe why the helping professions are more susceptible to burnout. Learning objective number three, give at least one example related to the five professional self-care strategies that can be used to prevent burnout and learning objective number four, describe how engaging in self-care practices supports ethical practice.

Disclosures Julie Slowiak financial disclosures. Julie is employed by the university of Minnesota Duluth and the owner and founder of NGL, LLC, a coaching and consulting business. Julie Slowiaks, nonfinancial disclosures. Julie is the executive director of the behavior analysis in health sport and fitness special interest group of 501C3 not-for-profit organization and a special interest group of the association for behavior analysis international. Julie is also a current member of ABAI the OBM [00:09:00] network, the association for contextual behavioral science, the American psychological association, and the society for occupational and health psychology

Kate that's me, my financial disclosures. I'm the owner and founder of Grandbois therapy and consulting, LLC, and cofounder of SLP nerd cast my nonfinancial disclosures.

I'm a member of ASHA, take 12 and serve on the AAC advisory group for Massachusetts advocates for children. I'm also a member of the Berkshire association for behavior analysis and therapy, mass ABA, the association for behavior analysis international and the corresponding speech pathology and applied behavior analysis special interest group.

[00:09:35] Julie Slowiak: 

[00:09:36] Amy Wonkka: Amy that's me. My financial disclosures are that I am an employee of a public school system. And I also receive financial compensation is co-founder of SLP nerd cast. And my non-financial disclosures are that I am a member of ASHA SIG 12, and I serve on the AAC advisory group for Massachusetts advocates for children.

Okay. We're all disclosed. We've looked at our objectives. I'm super excited about this conversation. I think, I think it's super applicable to so [00:10:00] many people all the time, but particularly coming out hopefully of, of the past year and a half, two years in which we've all been sort of struggling a bit with the new normal. Julie, can you start us off by telling us just a little bit about that first learning objective?

What is the concept of burnout? I mean, I think many of us have a concept of burnout. What are some signs and symptoms. 

[00:10:25] Julie Slowiak: Yeah. So I'll start by giving you the really nerdy definitions of burnout. The world health organization defines burnout as a syndrome conceptualized as resulting from chronic workplace stress that has not been successfully managed.

And then, um, the work of Demerouti and, um, colleagues, they are out of the Netherlands. They describe burnout as a psychological syndrome that is characterized in the workplace by disengagement and exhaustion. So when I say disengagement, we're talking about detaching [00:11:00] oneself from work, reducing your identification or your identity with the organization, maybe increasing your intentions to leave the organization.

So, um, some of those things that might be related to turnover and then exhaustion really is including things such as extreme fatigue and lack of mental and physical energy. So what we see is that burnout is going to be the consequence of prolonged exposure to intensive physical, effective or mental strains, um, in relation to particular job demands.

And really then when we're looking at it at the employee level high job demands, which might include things such as heavy workload role overload that are coupled with insufficient job resources. So things such as training, feedback, supervision, mentoring, coworker support. Those can lead to both physical and mental exhaustion.

And there's a really cool model out there called the job demands resources model J D M model that kind of talks [00:12:00] about that balance between resources and demands and how it can create either this health impairment process or a motivational process, depending on whether or not there are sufficient resources to meet those demands.

Um, and you can also see things like persistent interpersonal conflicts, clashes between role demands and preferences for certain tasks that can lead to, um, lead to burnout. So that's, you know, kind of in a nutshell what the concept of burnout has been described as in the literature, 

[00:12:31] Kate Grandbois: I mean, even just right there, the job demands resources model.

That sounds incredible. I mean, I'm, I don't know if there's an infographic that comes with that, but in my mind, there is, there is some balance that, that you have to have at that, that sounds like an incredible resource right there. And we're, we're like literally less than five minutes. 

[00:12:52] Julie Slowiak: yes. And that's one that I am like happy to share with you, share a reference for that.

Um, if that's something that we can tag on to [00:13:00] the show, but when I, I was fortunate enough to meet, um, Ava Demerouti, um, who is one of the founders of the Oldenburg burnout inventory, which is the burnout measure that I, um, choose to use. It's one, it's a freely available burnout measure. And it's one that probably it's probably the most widely used.

Burnout measure that exists in the literature. Most people are familiar with the mock lock burnout inventory or the M B I, but that one you do have to pay for. And so the other nice thing about the Oldenburg burnout inventory is that it really looks at those two dimensions of burnout, disengagement and exhaustion.

And it, you know, if you want to get into the psychometrics of it, it has positively and negatively worded statements, which then, um, you know, is going to increase the psychometric quality of the instrument and really, um, um, being able to identify low, moderate, and high levels of burnout, and [00:14:00] then related to that Demerouti and other colleagues put together this JDR model.

And so it works together really nicely. And when you see the model and the different factors that relate to job demands and job resources and these two different processes, it's easy to see how, when we have that imbalance of demands and resources that we can, um, end up with things such as burnout. 

[00:14:21] Kate Grandbois: Um, I want to say two things really quickly.

So first we will have all of these references and resources linked in the show notes. So if you're out there running, jogging, biking, driving, eating, doing laundry, whatever you're doing. No, no worries. We are going to have all of these risks, um, resources and references listed in the show notes as well as on the episode page. Second, I, I love your approach to this because I it's, it's scientific. And I think that lays a lot of validation and lays a lot of weight to people who might be feeling burnout or experiencing burnout. And I don't know, based on some of our cultural norms being like, oh, well I [00:15:00] just need to take a nap or I just need to do this.

Or they have some, you know, it's my fault that I'm feeling burnt out. I need to do better. Or, but the way you're approaching this as a scientist, as a researcher, you know, talking about things like it clicked with me when you said psychometrics, like these are things that we can actually measure that are legitimate, scientific problem that we can create solutions for.

And I love that perspective because it's very validating to a human who is just not feeling great about their work environment or they're experiencing they're experiencing burnout. So. And now that we have a definition for burnout and someone presumably is listening, because they're curious about the subject and maybe doing some self-reflection, what are some signs and symptoms that a person might look for to say, Hmm, do I, am I experiencing burnout?

Is my colleague experiencing burnout to sort of piece, you know, piece through that piece of it?

[00:15:58] Julie Slowiak: [00:16:00] Yeah, I think that what you'll find is that some of the signs and symptoms might be really obvious and others, maybe not so much, um, because there are some of these signs and symptoms that can kind of creep up slowly or gradually until it's this cumulative effect.

And all of a sudden, you kind of almost just kind of burst and realize, oh my gosh, I am really burnt out. But you know, thinking about things like, are you finding yourself being more critical or cynical about the work that you're doing or about those that you're working with? Are you having trouble getting started?

Just, you know, getting out of bed, getting excited to go to work. Each day. Um, not that we have to be excited to go to work each day, but maybe for the most part, you look forward to it. Um, but you're starting to notice that more often than not, you're not looking forward to it, lacking energy to be consistently productive.

So it's normal to have ebbs and flows in our productivity. But are you noticing that on a consistent basis, you're not meeting your expectations or the expectations of, of the job itself? Is it hard to concentrate? Are you lacking satisfaction for your achievements? [00:17:00] And that one kind of hit me cause I I'm the type of person who's just like, just go, go, go and cross things off a list.

And I don't really take the time to enjoy my accomplishments and you know, or I, you know, I know that there have been times where I'm like, oh yeah, well, like no big deal. Like, that's just what I do sort of thing. So are you actually satisfied with the work that you're doing? Do you start to notice that maybe you're engaging in unhealthy coping strategies, such as, um, using food, drugs, or alcohol to feel better?

Or to not feel to kind of numb those feelings and then changes in sleep habits. This was one that I realized early on in my career was huge for me, um, because I used to get consistently good sleep. And then all of a sudden my sleep was very disruptive or, um, I get, you know, four hours, one night and seven hours the next night and looking for those other physical symptoms, such as increased headaches, um, bowel, stomach issues, and, you know, just aches and [00:18:00] pains that you don't normally have. 

Tension headaches is a big one for me. Um, I know that then it's time for me to step away and

Kate Grandbois: Amy and I are both pointing at ourselves going same. Right? Yep. 

Julie Slowiak: Yeah. So, so those are just, you know, kind of a short list of some of the signs and symptoms, but probably some that, like I said would be more obvious, but maybe others that you're thinking, oh, well that doesn't mean that I'm burnt out.

It just means that maybe I'm too busy or I have too much, too many things on my plate right now.

[00:18:29] Kate Grandbois:  I, I am just like, you know, it's impossible to have this conversation and not sort of reflect on your personal experience. And I, I love sort of, as I already mentioned this intersection between science and personal experience, because there is such a connection between this is sort of moving into our second learning objective.

There's such a connection between our own personal mental health and our own, you know, personal wellbeing and our ability to show up and perform in our jobs. And I think [00:19:00] that's true across all jobs. However, when you are working in a helping profession, there are certain. Potentially more emotionally taxing experiences that one might not experience working in retail, for example, or, you know, any other office job.

Not that those jobs don't have stress, but there is something. And I, of course I can't articulate it because I'm not the scientist here presenting information, but I wonder if you could tell us a little bit more about the helping professions component of this. 

[00:19:32] Julie Slowiak: So the helping professions, I think can be very broad.

Right. You know, um, I would include things like, um, you know, social workers, psychologists, definitely SLPs and, um, you know, coaches. One that may not be obvious on the outset, but when I talk to sport or athletic coaches, they're certainly helping. And a lot of them who are at smaller colleges and universities and programs, um, end up taking on roles, kind of like [00:20:00] what Kate had mentioned earlier at the start of the episode, you're not equipped to be somebody's counselor.

Um, and yet you find yourself in that role. Teachers are definitely going to be in there. Um, and then you have, you know, our other allied health professionals who would certainly be included, you know, doctors, physicians, occupational health therapists, so on and so forth, you know? So I think one of the things that you can say about helping professions across the board is that work in those areas is often referred to as very rewarding. People are doing meaningful work and that's why they stay in those types of professions. Right. Because the services that you're providing, whether you're an educator or you're an SLP or behavior analyst, you're trying to improve the quality of life of those that you're serving.

Right. And, um, so however, I guess on the other side of this, despite that opportunity to engage in really meaningful work. Um, those in the helping professions are not immune [00:21:00] to what I would say are some negative characteristics of the types of jobs that they do. So, you know, when we're looking at, you know, what are some of these stressors, what are some of these things that can lead to burnout, um, that are common in helping and human service professions.

We see things like skill regression in clients for the types of disability or needs, uh, related to the clients and individuals that we serve. High demand for services, um, high or heavy case loads, workloads unsafe, or unsupportive work environments. And some of those things might've come into play. Um, over the past year, certainly under staffing.

Inadequate resources or materials, failing equipment, um, changes to processes without proper training, lack of clear and frequent performance feedback, inadequate supervision, or mentoring, maybe even inadequate opportunities to interact with our coworkers, right? Or with [00:22:00] our supervisors, especially if you are even pre COVID a remote worker or a lone worker, or maybe you're just your work environment.

If you're providing in-home services versus a clinic based services, um, the type of environment can make a difference. Um, maybe it's the availability of professional development opportunities or supervision activities. And then we, you know, see those other things like interpersonal conflicts, unrealistic time pressures and demands.

And it could even be things such as job insecurity or, um, salary concerns, um, which are, you know, things that are on everybody's minds. These days. A lot of, a lot of the things that I listed there, probably every one of us could, you know, at least say that we experienced a few of those, um, on a, on a regular basis in these professions, 

[00:22:49] Kate Grandbois: That was a very long list. And I think one of the, some of them, some of the things that resonated at least with me and Amy, I don't know if you have, if you have input on this too, in terms of the field of speech [00:23:00] pathology, or not even necessarily speech pathology, special education or other allied health professionals, when you're working with someone who has a communication impairment, and usually there's a team environment involved.

So we're talking about a lot of different helpers, a lot of different helping professionals. And you know, one of the things that resonated with me outta that long list was the workload and the caseload, because that's a persistent problem in our field. And I bring it, I bring up this poor colleague of mine all the time.

She's works in a school and she has a caseload of 147 students. And that is just, I mean, you're barely eating lunch. I mean, that's like a console completely unreasonable. I'm wondering if you have any. Resources or suggestions for how someone who is in that position, who is working with any variety of variables that you just listed, what can they do to advocate for improvements in those [00:24:00] conditions?

I mean, are there, why should their employers, why should their administration care about burnout? 

[00:24:06] Julie Slowiak: Well, I think the most obvious reason why an employer should care is because this is going to directly impact the health of that employee, which is then going to have those indirect effects on the organization.

Right? So now you're going to have an employee who is exhausted, might start to experience some of those physical symptoms. They’re feeling a lot of emotional stress. They might have changes in their weight, their eating habits, their social habits. Um, and then what we start to see is decreased engagement at work, decreased levels of job satisfaction, increased intentions to leave the organization.

They might be spending those short little breaks that they have looking for other jobs. Right. And, um, you know, if you're familiar with the costs associated with having to recruit, hire, and train a new employee to replace, it's much more costly [00:25:00] to recruit new employees than it is to retain those that you already have.

And so really that, that should be the goal of the organization is to look at it on a more system nomadic level on an organizational level and say, okay, what is happening in that? Impacting this individual's caseload. Why is their caseload so high? Are there resources that are lacking at the organizational level that need to be changed?

And, you know, and this is going to be hard because when we're looking at human service organizations, we know that they have inadequate, um, resources to deal with a lot of these things. And, you know, and that's something that, you know, I don't, I can't just like wave a magic wand and say, okay, here are all the resources that you need.

Right. But it might be looking at, you know, what are the values of your organization? And are you able to act on those values, um, through the, you know, the actions that you're [00:26:00] taking, um, in, in the way that you are treating your employees. Um, and so it might mean, you know, taking a step back.

The high caseload stuff is just one part of the issue of something else that I hear so often is that practitioners are working with clients who have issues that are outside of their scope of competence. And that kind of relates later on to what we're, we'll talk about ethics, but you know, that's another issue that needs to be addressed at the organizational level and somewhat at the employee level.

Certainly if you're an employee and you realize that, you know, you are being assigned to work with somebody and their needs are outside of your scope of competence, then there needs to be a process by which you can communicate that to your supervisor and employer. But then what happens if they say, well, too bad, you got to work with them.

And I don't have that personal experience. Um, but I know. I've heard several stories from others who have had that experience. And so I think, you know, a lot of those [00:27:00] types of things though, are what is going to lead to burnout among the employees. Um, if you're consistently being asked to do things that are unethical, and I think there was an article that was just published like literally at the end of July, I think it's just available online first, right now on ethics, burnout and reported life and job attitudes. This is among board certified behavior analysts. I apologize to SLP is listening, but I, I'm far more familiar with the literature, um, in the field of behavior analysis.

Uh, so I will admit, I have not been able to read it thoroughly and, um, you know, look at it, uh, from a methodological point of view, it was a smaller sample. Um, but it was interesting to see that there's been some research done on, you know, being asked to do things that are unethical by supervisors. So, um, that article is one that, um, I'll make sure is handy as a reference.

[00:27:57] Kate Grandbois: I know Amy, you have something in your thinking bubble that I want to hear, but I [00:28:00] just quickly want to say that I know that article is for behavior analysts. There are a lot of parallels, lots of differences, many, many differences, probably more differences than similarities, but you know, there are a lot of common threads there.

And I think I can say I'm just out of the number of friends and colleagues, I know who have left jobs because of unethical expectations in their workplace. It is, it is, it happens in speech pathology as well. Go ahead. 

[00:28:25] Amy Wonkka: It certainly does. I mean, I think another piece that was coming up for me as I was listening to you talk, Julie was just the idea that there are probably at that big, long list of all the things that can contribute to burnout probably is weighted differently for each person as an individual as well.

You know, I know for me, that caseload workload is always a huge consideration in my personal choices of employment, because for me, that's something that. I place a lot of value on my ability to be effective in my job or hope that I'm effective in my job. And for me, that's such a limiting factor that that [00:29:00] disconnect feels like I can't, I can't accommodate it where some of those other potential burnout components, I find I'm personally a bit more easily able to mitigate for myself sometimes.

And I don't know if there's any, and there might not be any research on that, but if there are trends maybe related to thinking about those helping professions and which pieces tend to be a bigger challenge for folks who are in the helping profession. Like I would imagine you had mentioned the caseload workload.

Like I would imagine there are certain things like that that just keep popping back up again. And it's unfortunate from an organizational systemic level that we, that we don't have a better way to sort of communicate this to administrators of healthcare organizations or educational organizations. I guess I don't, I don't really have questions.

I just don't have, I just have like big feelings about all the things that you've been saying. 

[00:29:55] Julie Slowiak: Yeah. Well, I think you're right that the, the high case loads workloads is [00:30:00] just something that is. It's probably the number one thing that I hear in having conversations with individuals and even in various online forums, I'll see somebody who says, you know, I'm really excited to get into this career, but after I've talked to people who are in this profession, I, all I hear about is how demanding it is and the case loads and, and everything else that goes along with it.

And like, how do you all do it? How do you balance it? And, um, you know, so I think part of it is that the field of behavior analysis, and I'm sure that this is happening in other helping professions. Um, just the demand for services is so much greater than the number of individuals available to meet those demands.

Um, and that's why I think, you know, we see things like being, being asked to do things that are outside of, you know, our scope of competence. Things that are not necessarily ethical. And it puts the employee in a [00:31:00] really hard spot because at the end of the day, you need to have a job where you're getting paid and you're bringing home those resources, you know, to take care of yourself and your family.

Um, you know, and so you can definitely see where this dilemma starts to occur and how that can make one barrier susceptible to, to burnout. But yeah, so, you know, when we see high caseload, then that obviously tends to be, um, you know, a predictor of that, of that is going to be under staffing. So I kind of look at this long list and it's like, well, what are all the things?

You know, which one of these, it might be predicted by some of the others on this list. And, um, you know, when we're, when we're looking at things like feedback, that's another one that. Really quite common is just the lack of clear expectations, clear and frequent performance feedback. You know, um, as somebody who is trained in organizational behavior management, frequent feedback is like the name of the game.

So we don't leave [00:32:00] performance issues to the end of the year during a yearly evaluation. Like you're getting that feedback on, you know, sometimes daily, but you know, weekly, monthly, quarterly, it's gotta be a lot more frequent than once a year. Um, so that we can nip those situations in the bud, but also acknowledge all the great things that people are doing.

I can't remember where I read it or how long ago it was, but like the number one reason that people leave is because of lack of recognition for the work that they're doing. 

[00:32:27] Kate Grandbois: I heard a quote recently that was people don't leave jobs. They leave managers and I, that resonated with me because people need praise. People need to hear that they're doing a good job, even if they have a lot of potential. And we've said this on our podcast before about other clinical issues and topics as individuals who work in the field of communication disorders, behavior analysis, we're taught to meet our learners where they are, right.

We are taught to provide scaffolding, environmental supports. We don't expect [00:33:00] to snap our fingers and then have someone just know things. Why do we do that to each other? It makes absolutely no sense. You have to meet people where they are. And when you're in a working environment where you're constantly being criticized or corrected, and no one's meeting you where you are in your professional development, which by the way is multicast multifold.

You have professional development with content knowledge, you have professional development with skill application, you have professional development with maturity, knowing that to ask your coworkers what their salary is. I mean, just some like basic fundamental professional, um, maturity. I'm sorry. You just got me on a soap box there.

Cause I, I feel like it's just, I feel like that's just a very important point.

[00:33:45] Amy Wonkka: I had a question, I guess that's a bit more connected to our third learning objective if that's okay. So, um, I'm sitting here and I'm like realizing that there's all of these pieces. There's the feedback [00:34:00] piece. There's the workload piece.

There are all of these components. I would imagine that there are a fair amount of people listening to this podcast right now who are recognizing at least some components of burnout in themselves. Let's say, that's you. And you're that listener. And you're feeling a bit burnt out, but you know, to your point, Julia, like you also need a paycheck so that you can support your family.

And you're going to try and engage with some conversations with your management, wherever your workplace is, and possibly, you know, do some things to mitigate that burnout at an organizational level. Let's say, if you feel like you can, but. What are some tips for somebody who feels like, okay, I'm feeling burnout or I'm feeling like I'm on the edge of burnout.

And yet, like, this is my reality. This is where I am. This is where I'm working. This is my moment right now. And I do need this paycheck and I do need these other things. How, is there a way for somebody who's in that position to sort of manage a bit so that it doesn't just [00:35:00] drag them right down. 

[00:35:02] Julie Slowiak: Yeah.

And I, one of the things that I've done in my research is that I've started to study self care as a predictor for burnout. So if we're basically saying, if we, if we're engaging frequently in different types of self care, can we predict lower levels of burnout? And in some of the most recent research that, um, I've published, we did in fact, find that a higher frequency of engaging in self-care practices leads to lower burnout.

And so what do I, I'll start with just telling you a little bit about what self-care is, because it's not the bubble bath and going to the spa type thing that maybe perhaps comes to mind when you hear the word self-care. Um, so again, I'll give you the really nerdy one, um, that I use, the definition that I use.

Um, and this is from Dorsey, um, and colleagues and they, um, Dorsey, can colleagues have done, um, a lot of work on in self-care within the field of social work. Um, [00:36:00] and in psychology. So, um, they define self care as a multidimensional multifaceted process of purposeful engagement in strategies that promote healthy functioning and enhance wellbeing.

And then the self care forum, which is a sort of an international group, they, um, kind of talk about it a little bit more behaviorally. So the actions that individuals are taking for themselves on behalf of, and with others in order to develop, protect, maintain, and improve their health, wellbeing, or wellness.

Um, and so really in, in the reading that I've done on the research on self care, we're looking at self care as being comprised of sets of behavior that individuals are engaging in on a regular daily basis. Okay. So, um, it's a lifelong process. It's, it's gotta be a habit that becomes part of our lifestyle, part of our day-to-day routine.

It's never ending. You could look at personal self care as well as [00:37:00] professional self care. And I've chosen to kind of focus when we're looking at burnout in the workplace, what are kind of different areas of professional self care that exists. So if you'd like, I can certainly share with you and please I would like that five different types of professional self care.

Great. Um, so the first one is professional support, and as you might imagine, this is going to include supervisors, coworkers, mentors. All those good, um, different types of relationships that we can have. So really emphasizing the importance of those supportive relationships that allow you to avoid isolation.

And this can then help decrease some of that stress in the workplace. Um, and tips related to that are, you know, first cultivating those relationships. I mean, you have to start somewhere. Um, if you're like me and you're a little bit introverted, it can be hard to reach out and, you know, get to know new people.

When I moved to Duluth, Minnesota, I didn't know anyone here. I didn't have family or friends. 

[00:37:58] Amy Wonkka: It is, it is so hard [00:38:00] to make grownup friends. I'm sorry to interject, but I, I had a similar life experience where I, at one point moved to Ohio and I didn't know anybody. And it was the hardest thing. How do you make grownup friends as a grownup?

It's 

[00:38:12] Julie Slowiak: everyone that I talk to says the same thing. It is so hard to make friends when you are like, once you're past college. And like, if you move, especially if you're moving out of state and you're not moving with somebody, or even if you are, but it's just the two of you, you know, it's, it's hard to make adult friends because it's like, where, where do I meet these friends?

It's not like what we used to do when we were in college, in high school and all that kind of stuff. So, but with regard to professional support, you know, avoiding isolation, um, sharing, sharing work-related stressors with other coworkers. So I think we have a tendency to share the good things that are going on, but we don't share the things that are stressing us out and.

I don't know, in my experience, once I've been brave enough to share just one small thing, it's like I find a whole crew of people who are [00:39:00] experiencing the same exact thing. And then at that point, if there are multiple people experiencing the same thing, it's easier to move forward and address those problems at a higher level, in my opinion.

And that's been my experience as well. Um, you know, and doing things to maintain that support system. So professional support is the first one professional development is the second. And we've talked a little bit about that. Certainly listening to. That's podcast going to other continuing education events is a form of professional development, connecting with organizations in your community that might also, um, you know, be trying to do the same thing or work with the same group of clients provide similar services, or just simply connecting with organizations that are doing stuff that's important to you.

So, you know, volunteering, um, working with charities, staying current in knowledge, I think Kate had mentioned that before too, you know, whether you're reading the literature or listening to somebody else tell you about the literature. Um, it's great to know, you know, what, what is happening now because if we know [00:40:00] anything about science, science changes, and you know what we might've known about.

60 years ago may not be the same today. Certainly there are going to be different organizational factors and personal life factors that are going to influence burnout today than they were 60 years ago. And just, you know, making sure that the activities that you're choosing for professional development are ones that you enjoy.

So, you know, to give you a personal example, since my background in behavior analysis is organizational behavior management, and it's not what 75% of practitioners in the field do. 75% of the field works, um, with clients that have autism or other intellectual disabilities. And, um, so when I go to conferences, conventions, or I'm looking for CEUS, it's sometimes it's hard to find the CEUS that are enjoyable.

Um, you know, so I'm looking, you know, I will go to CES on applied animal behavior because I love my dog and I want to see if there are any cool things that I can [00:41:00] teach him that I haven't done already. My dog knows how to walk on a treadmill. That's very cool. Yes. Yes. Northern Minnesota, where the temperatures are far below, zero for multiple months during the year.

Um, and you don't want to be outside for very long. That's what you can do. You can teach your dog to walk on a treadmill. So I did that, but, you know, so, you know, and then I started looking for, um, continuing ed, um, opportunities really to help sport and fitness because it's a personal passion of mine that has, you know, woven into my professional interests as well.

Um, so really look for those things that are going to get you excited, because that's also going to give you new ideas for how to do your job better. Life balance is the third area of professional self care. So this is what we typically hear referred to as work-life balance. And Kate, I think knows that I do not like the term work-life balance just don't because we can't balance it.

I'm sorry, but it's never going to be balanced. [00:42:00] So I like to talk about like, work-life flow. Like this ebb and flow. Like sometimes my work needs to be a priority. Sometimes life needs to be a priority. Um, and any of you who have gone through major life things, um, like even, you know, the death of a loved one you'll know that during that time life needs to be much more important than work.

Um, and hopefully you have the support, you know, to, to be able to do that. Um, so, you know, regardless people are going to talk about work-life balance, um, but really just making sure that you are taking time to spend time with people and do activities that you enjoy, um, seeking out activities and people who you feel comfortable around, um, that can make a world of a difference, um, and figuring out ways.

And I think we've all done this in the last year and a half to have social connection when we may not be able to be physically, um, around one another is very important. 

Kate Grandbois: Um, I have more question. 

 Julie Slowiak: Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. 

[00:42:58] Kate Grandbois: I was just going to ask you [00:43:00] what the really, I had never heard of the categorization of professional self care versus personal self care.

I'm wondering if there's a relationship between those two things and if so, can you tell us a little bit about personal self-care that isn't a bubble bath or I'm sorry. I had someone tell me once. Well, you should just go get a manicure and I just wanted to, I just, my head almost exploded because as you said, that's not what self-care is.

So I'd love to hear more about the relationship between those two things. 

[00:43:29] Julie Slowiak: Yeah. So w the distinction that Lee and Miller make is that personal self-care focuses on actions taken to promote holistic health and wellbeing of the self. So very individual, um, oriented, um, and those like personal self-care actions can really fall in a variety of life domains.

I like the wellbeing model that the university of Minnesota uses where we have different dimensions of wellbeing. Um, and you know, so that can be things related to physical or [00:44:00] emotional, psychological health, but it can also be things such as like financial safety and security. Um, it can be things like purpose, you know, what's your life's purpose.

It could be those closer relationships with others. Um, it can be your community type relationships, you know, volunteering, church groups, those types of things. Um, and then also environment and environment, it doesn't just include the natural environment. This was a big thing for me. It also includes the built environment.

So think of your office space, where are you working? Does it inspire you? And if it doesn't make sure it does. So, um, if, if you, if you could see me right now, um, and you can see my home office, I have pictures of my dog, of my husband, of my girlfriends, you know, um, have pictures of puppies. I have pictures of my grandparents and, you know, just like things that make me smile when I walk in the door.

Right. And it's full of a lot of color. [00:45:00] That's, that's another thing that's was a big deal to me. And there was a point in time where I hated going to my office on campus. And so I enlisted the help of my work best friend, the employee. And health and wellness coach, and she loves she's creative. She was the creative one of the bunch.

I was like the practical here's how we're going to do it. And she was the visionary. So it was great. But yeah, I mean, so she helped me design an office that did not look like any of my colleagues, but every time my students or colleagues came into my office, they were like, this is so great. Um, and so, you know, make sure that you're in a space that is inspiring and comfortable and relaxing to you.

So that's kind of the personal self-care side. And then the professional self care is really focused on, you know, promoting effective and what they call appropriate use of self in the professional role and within the context of kind of sustaining that holistic health and wellbeing, but in your role as a, as a professional, as a [00:46:00] practitioner, so.

What I've seen is that if we have effective personal self care, it will foster effective professional self-care. So really, you know, kind of starting small start, start with yourself and in your personal life, and then move that into, make those little tweaks in your professional life as well. That answer your question Kate?

[00:46:22] Kate Grandbois: It does answer my question.

And I have to sort of the analogy that you used before about the flow. I have to imagine that those two things continue to influence each other as life expectations change. You might need to engage more. I mean, personal life expectations change. You might need to engage in more personal self-care practices and vice versa.

And that another thing that was coming to the forefront of my mind while you were talking. Just being able to have the awareness of these things. For me personally, that was a big one. I, several years ago, experienced a serious moment of burnout. I had a lot of things going [00:47:00] on in my personal life that were less than awesome that I had no control over.

I had a really demanding professional uh, environment that I had to go to every day. And all of a sudden, I, I sort of had like a, like a crisis moment of like, I can't do this anymore. I can't do this anymore. And I was, I, the way I joke about, I said the universe broke me, I just went, but really, I didn't have, I had gone through all of these sequences of really stressful experiences with no awareness that they were stressful.

And I know that sounds silly. Like I know knew that I was stressed, but there wasn't that connection between, oh, let me take a step back for a second. Let me try and solve this problem. And I think that's just from my experience, that was a big lesson that I had to learn. And I wonder if you can tell us a little bit more, first of all, is that real, second, please validate me publicly on this podcast. Second of all, can you tell us a little bit about it?

[00:47:51] Julie Slowiak: Yes. Well, I, I think that was the perfect lead into what is the fourth area? Professional [00:48:00] self care Kate. Cognitive awareness, cognitive awareness. Yeah. So Theo, um, you know, which really is that part of, um, becoming aware and monitoring those workplace stress and emotions that you're experiencing, um, as well as figuring out, you know, how can I, um, have a proactive approach to managing those challenges and maintaining those, um, maintaining that level of awareness of your feelings and your needs.

So strategies for cognitive awareness are going include things like self monitoring, self exploration, self-reflection um, all of those are going to increase that level of awareness and, you know, so being able to tack those triggers for the different feelings and emotions, um, because really, if you're not aware of the things that are triggers in your environment, then you can't change.

Like self-awareness is a precursor to being able to make those changes. Right. So, you know, I, I like to have what I call like [00:49:00] daily mindfulness check-ins like, just take a minute or two every so often throughout the day to be like, okay, what am I feeling right now? And if you are feeling a little bit anxious and stressed out, think about what were you, just, what were you doing right before that?

Um, and, and starting to figure out, okay, what's the pattern? Is it sort of like when I, um, met with my neurologist, I have vestibular migraines. And, you know, if you've ever had a migraine, you know, how awful they are vestibular migraines, sometimes don't even have pain, but instead you have non spinning vertigo and dizziness and unsteadiness it's it's wild.

But, you know, I had to write down in a journal every day, like, okay, what time am I having them? What, what was I doing beforehand? Have they eaten anything yet? You know, what was my sleep like the night before? You know, it's very similar to a lot of the things that, you know, if you're familiar with the field of behavior analysis, um, you know, you're doing a kind of a contextual assessment of the environment related to the behavior that [00:50:00] you're experiencing, whether that's an overt or covert behavior.

Right. Um, you know, so being able to identify those triggers for our emotions, our feelings, those internal sensations is going to be absolutely critical to being able to figure out a way to approach them when they do happen. And for anybody listening, if you're familiar at all with acceptance and commitment therapy or outside of the clinical sphere, acceptance and commitment training, um, there are some fabulous diffusion techniques that are super helpful when you start to notice those uncomfortable or negative emotions and feelings that are popping up.

They're good. They're normal. They're going to be there. You can let them be there, but there are techniques for being able to respond effectively and continue to engage in meaningful action. Even when those negative feelings and emotions. 

[00:50:50] Kate Grandbois: And just a second that, um, acceptance and commitment therapy is, is really, uh, an incredible tool.

We've, um, published some work here on the podcast about it, [00:51:00] but it is a very vast practice. And there are, um, there's a book that I'm not sure if you would recommend it, Julia, but it's something that I've really taken a lot of, uh, out of, which is the Happiness Trap and we can link something, um, in the show notes to it, they make an illustrated version.

That's like a comic book that you can read in a very, very, very short period of time that will give you some of the groundwork and some of the fundamental principles. Um, and I, I highly recommend. 

[00:51:28] Julie Slowiak: Yeah, I, 100% recommend the happiness trap. And then I also have another couple of recommendations that are more work-related.

So there's one called the Mindful and Effective Employee. And, um, it can, it has ideas for like workshops to do with employees. So if you're somebody who's in a supervisory role, this that might be a really helpful book. There's another book called emotional agility by Susan David. And what I love about emotional agility.

If you're familiar with acceptance and commitment therapy, you're familiar with [00:52:00] psychological flexibility. Cause that's the outcome of, of doing act as to be more psychologically flexible. Basically, Dr. David talks about psychological flexibility as emotional agility. I think it just sounds nicer. Um, but her entire book talks about how to, well, this is.

The sub-line of the title, get unstuck, embrace, change, and thrive and work in life. Um, and I'll tell you, I was listening to a podcast where Susan David was speaking and the whole time she was talking, because I was just walking around, um, Brooklyn, New York at the time. And as she was talking about it, I was like, wow, everything that she's talking about sounds like psychological flexibility to me.

And sure enough, when I Googled her, when I got back home, I found out that she had written an article in Harvard business review on this. And at the end of it, she's referencing Steve Hayes and acceptance and commitment therapy. And I was like, oh yes, they're, they're basically doing the same thing. And just talking about it in different terms, which for anybody who's familiar with academia, if you've ever taken a statistics class, you know, [00:53:00] that there's like, you know, five different names for the same thing.

Right. Um, so it's no different with, you know, some of these, um, terms related to, um, psychological flexibility, burnout, self care, all of it, somebody will be talking about just slightly different. 

[00:53:16] Kate Grandbois: And I, I also sort of piggybacking on that idea and connecting the dots to all of the other things that you mentioned, including the awareness piece is really, and I know you already said this, I'm just saying it again for emphasis, the role that mindfulness has in this journey and how powerful of a tool it can be.

I guess, personal little anecdote I was, you know, really, really into mindfulness helped me a lot personally. And I nagged Amy for about a year. Was it a year? How long did I nag you to practice to start 

[00:53:51] Amy Wonkka: Awhile. A long time a long time

[00:53:52] Kate Grandbois:What's the verdict. 

[00:53:55]Amy Wonkka: I think it's helpful. 

[00:53:56] Kate Grandbois: It's really helpful. And so I, I share it. [00:54:00] I share that personal anecdote between the two of us in our friendship, because if you are listening and you don't practice mindfulness, and you think that it's it's hokey or mumbo-jumbo, or you think, oh, that doesn't work or it's silly, or I don't have, time is another big one.

It is not time consuming and it's not mumbo-jumbo it's science and there is science to back it up. It's a real thing. And I guess I'm going to let the actual scientists tell us a little bit about the science behind mindfulness. Can you tell us a little bit about the, how powerful 

[00:54:31] Julie Slowiak: it can be? Well, what I can tell you is that, um, I stumbled onto mindfulness through yoga and uh, yoga for me was one of those things. I was like, oh, whatever, I like, I tried it, it didn't work for me. That's what I said after like the first one first time. And I did this multiple times and then I finally decided, okay, I'm going to give it a real shot. I'm going to go three times a week for a month and just see what's going [00:55:00] on.

Um, and, and through yoga, I really learned how to be mindful, how to connect with the present moment and be fully in the present moment. And, and then when I stumbled onto acceptance and commitment therapy, it was like, oh, well, like now the mindfulness parts of, of act, uh, really made sense to me because I felt like it was a lot of the same of what I had learned through yoga.

But Kate exactly. Mindfulness does not take a lot of time. You can engage in everyday behaviors or activities in a mindful way. I, my favorite way to practice mindfulness is to go for a mindful walk. And while I'm walking, I'm engaging all of my senses and you know, so what am I seeing? What am I smelling?

What am I feeling? Maybe it's the breeze. That's, you know, Blowing my hair or my ponytail in one direction. Um, maybe it's the smell if you're, you know, driving through central Wisconsin during the summer of, you know, the farm land and, uh, you know, or, you know, just the smells of the city or the fresh cut [00:56:00] grass, those types of things.

So you can practice mindfulness in so many different ways. I've heard of people who practice mindfulness while they're brushing their teeth while they're making their bed while they're doing their dishes. Um, and so if I had any, um, you know, recommendation would be try a few different ways to practice it.

And this kind of also relates to I've said there were five areas of professional self care. So the first one being professional support, second one being professional development, then life balance, cognitive awareness, and then daily balance and daily balance is kind of those smaller scale micro actions that we can take throughout the day.

So that might be on that quick work break? Take a mindful walk, take a few minutes to practice some deep breathing, engage in all of your senses and avoid over-commitment of work responsibilities. That's probably the biggest one. So learn to say no. Um, if there's one thing that I can recommend to anyone who's listening, especially if you are early in your career, that's probably the time where you're [00:57:00] like, I can't say no.

I can't say no. Please learn how to say no, because the sooner you do it, like I promise you, it will make your life so much better. And so one of the ways that I, when I get asked to do anything, I ask myself. Is this going to be a meaningful task for me to engage in and how is this aligned with my personal values, um, or my professional values.

Um, and you know, there might be some things that you have to say yes to that you don't really want to, but there are going to be things that you can say no to, and it's okay to say no. So, um, that over-commitment is just something that's really hard for a lot of people to do, but, um, everybody I've talked to says, it's the best thing to do guilty.

[00:57:45] Amy Wonkka: Well, and I kind of feel like just back to what the earlier learning objective that I do feel like that's a classic pitfall of folks who are in the helping professions. I think that perhaps more so than people in other professions, [00:58:00] we, as a whole, I include myself in this group. Don't do a great job setting limits and saying no, when you should.

[00:58:08] Kate Grandbois: And I wonder if this is somehow related to our fourth learning objective. So our fourth learning objective, just to remind our listeners is related to self care practices and the relationship with ethics. And I have to imagine that when you're always saying yes, you are saying yes to things that perhaps could maybe be outside of your scope.

[00:58:28] Julie Slowiak: Yeah, outside of your scope, or they're going to, you know, fall into that over a commitment in doing too many things. Right? And so if we're engaging in effective professional self care and personal, um, it's going to be preventative against the development of stress, of burnout, of other negative conditions and, you know, failing to take care of ourselves and take care of our wellbeing, um, can set up those conditions, that support behavior that will negatively impact you such as.[00:59:00] 

And not only impact you, but impact your clients and the profession as a whole. So when we start to see people make poor decisions on ethical decisions, it's not just impacting them. It really is impacting, you know, those that we're serving and the field within which we are, you know, maybe, um, other disciplines that we regularly collaborate with.

Um, so you can think of how, you know, making those poor decisions because you're not taking care of yourself, um, can really have that, that ripple effect. And it is, uh, you know, something that I, I really believe that we have a personal and professional responsibility to develop and maintain our wellbeing.

Um, that again, you know, the effective, personal self care is going to, you know, Uh, help lead to that professional, um, self care. And, um, you know, there are a lot of professional ethics codes. I did not look at the ASHAs, um, ethics code. So maybe one of you can let me know, um, if [01:00:00] they include any, um, codes related to self care.

Um, right now it's indirectly in the, um, behavior analysts, um, ethics code, but I do know that there are some ethics codes out there. Um, I think it's the counseling ethics code, American counseling association. I believe it's in there so that they directly talk about engaging in self care as an ethical responsibility.

So I really, you know, kind of one of my calls to action is that this should be a regular thing that we, that we see in everyone's professional code of ethics. 

[01:00:34] Kate Grandbois: I don't think, off the top of my head, I don't have the code of ethics in front of me, but I've read it multiple times, especially preparing episodes for this, um, podcast.

Our, um, our, our code of ethics is very much rooted in providing competent service. So, you know, I think if you're engaged, if you're not engaging in self care to a point where you're no longer able to provide that competent service, I think [01:01:00] that would, that would count. Amy, do you have anything to add there?

[01:01:03] Amy Wonkka: They do, I pulled it up, but they do. I thought that there was a piece in there about, you know, substance abuse and being an impaired practitioner. And so there is that piece in there about substance abuse health-related or mental health related conditions, which I think is not directly tied with self care, but, you know, back to your earlier points, if somebody is really struggling with burnout, it's also possible that some of these other challenges may present themselves for a practitioner.

And in general, it makes sense. Having a nice work flow work, not work-life balance, but life, life balance, um, is going to promote better services for our clients because we're going to be more present when we're. 

[01:01:46] Julie Slowiak: Absolutely. And, you know, it's, you know, if we're, we really need to recognize self care as something, um, that's not done on just an individual level, like there are things that can be done at the employee level, but things that can [01:02:00] be done at the employer organization level, and there are things that can be done as a whole, you know, as a field.

And so we really need to look at this much more systemically to, um, figure out, you know, one of the things that I said in my publications, like we need to be talking about self care in graduate training curriculums, you know, and talking about ways to mitigate burnout and, um, or how to respond effectively when we're, you know, um, when we start to notice that we're feeling burnt out because otherwise, you know, it's just going to ripple on into your career, right.

If you're just, you know, busting through graduate school. And I don't know about you guys, but graduate school was demanding. I was stressed out a lot of the time and you know, that just kind of carries over into, um, you know, our careers. So if we're not practicing, you know, personal or professional self care, then we are placing ourselves at risk of impaired, both professional competence, but also personal competence.[01:03:00] 

And, um, and you know, that the scope of competence thing is a little bit nuanced because it really is something that each individual kind of has to discern for themselves. Right? Like I know that there's a lot of talk in the field and maybe the scope of competence will be more well-defined in the future because we've mostly focused on scope of practice, but there are a lot of things that are in one's scope of practice that may not be in their scope of competence.

And, you know, I can, I can share as a personal example, I get calls from local school districts to come and do functional behavior assessments. Because they see in the directory that I'm listed as a BCBA and I have to say to them, yes. I understand that I am a board certified behavior analyst. However, I have no training in doing FBAs with that client population.

And therefore, I, you know, I, I can't take that risk. Um, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be an effective or an ethical practitioner if I [01:04:00] did. So it's definitely something that I think we need to be more concerned about. And I'm, I'm hopeful because there have been, um, you know, a lot of, uh, recent articles, uh, within the helping profession fields on the topic of burnout.

And so I think that we're kind of moving in the right direction and hopefully some day we'll start to see those changes in updated professional codes of ethics. 

[01:04:26] Kate Grandbois: So at our final minute here, I know you have a private practice and you do a lot of coaching as part of that private practice. Do you want to tell our listeners maybe a little bit more about where they can learn more or how they can contact you and sort of what services you offer and how they can sort of learn more from your resources?

[01:04:45] Julie Slowiak: Yeah, sure. Well, before I do that, I just want to say start small. So if you're feeling burnt out, start small, take, make one small tweak to either, you know, your personal self care. Activities or your professional self care [01:05:00] activities and build from there. Um, because this isn't something that you want to just take a giant leap and like, you know, restructure your entire life around.

But I do, as Kate mentioned, um, I do have a coaching and consulting organization. So I work with, um, individuals who are looking to increase their personal or professional self-care. I also work with organizations who are looking to increase kind of the culture of wellbeing in their organization. You can find me on Instagram, I'm using the handle, um, at Dr. Julie Slowiak. Um, you can also, um, go to my website, although I'll tell you, I, it might have some bugs in it right now, but it's injewelcoaching.com or you can email me at, injewelcoaching@gmail.com. 

[01:05:46] Kate Grandbois: Thank you so much for everything. This was such a wealth of information. I absolutely loved this conversation.

Thank you so much for everything you do and your work and your research. And thank you for sharing it with us. This was really great.

[01:05:58] Julie Slowiak: Thank you so much for [01:06:00] the opportunity. Thank you. 

[01:06:03] Kate Grandbois: Thank you so much for joining us in today's episode. As always, you can use this episode for ASHA CEUs. You can also potentially use this episode for other credits, depending on the regulations of your governing body.

To determine if this episode will count for professional development in your area of study, please check in with your governing bodies or you can go to our website, www.SLPNerdcast.com. All the references and information listed throughout the course of the episode will be listed in the show notes. And as always, if you have any questions, please email us at info@SLPnerdcast.com

Thank you so much for joining us and we hope to welcome you back here again soon.