Gender Aligning Voice Modification: The client's perspective

This is a transcript from our podcast episode published February 27th, 2023. The podcast episode is offered for .05 ASHA CEUs. This transcript is made available as a course accommodation for and is supplementary to this episode / course. This transcript is not intended to be used in place of the podcast episode with the exception of course accommodation. Please note: This transcript was created by robots. We do our best to proof read but there is always a chance we miss something. Find a typo? Email us anytime.

[00:00:00] Kate Grandbois: Welcome to SLP nerd cast the number one professional resource for evidence based practice in speech, language pathology. I'm Kate grant wa and I'm Amy 

[00:00:09] Amy Wonkka: Wonka. We are both speech, language pathologists working in the field and co-founders of SLP nerd cast. Each 

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[00:01:43] Kate Grandbois: Welcome everyone to today's episode today, we had one of the most amazing conversations with a panel of guests who joined us. There were six of us, seven of us. 

[00:01:56] Amy Wonkka: It was the most people we've ever had on the, it was 

[00:01:58] Kate Grandbois: the, at the same time, it was [00:02:00] the most people we've ever had here on the show at the same.

Um, and this panel of guests was here to discuss the client's perspective, um, when receiving gender aligning voice modification services. And we're just so grateful. Um, we left this conversation feeling. So warm and full and it was just awesome. So we are really excited to share it with you. We wanna get to the good stuff as quickly as possible.

So I am going to read through our learning objectives and disclosures, and then we will cut right over to all the joy. Yes. Okay. Learning objective, number one, describe at least two ways. Clients find gender aligning voice modification to be beneficial to their daily. Learning objective, number two, describe at least two suggestions a client could make regarding how clinicians may demonstrate their cultural responsivity and learning.

Objective number three, describe at least one way a client may work to maintain their voice strategies after [00:03:00] discharge disclosures ACS financial disclosures, AC Goldberg is the founder of transplanting and the credit Institute and received an honorarium for participating in this course, AC Goldberg's non-financial disclosures.

AC is a founding member of the trans voice initiative and is a topic expert in gender for the informed SLP. He is a 2022 Asha convention planning committee member in health literacy, access communication, and. He is also on the community advisory board, overseeing research out a Boston university around the effects of exogenous testosterone therapy on communication and assigned female at birth speakers, AC is on the editorial board of the journal of communication disorders.

Barb birth's financial disclosures. Barb is a clinical and academic instructor in communication, sciences, and disorders at Emerson college, she instructs students in the delivery of voice services to all populations. Barb received an honorarium for participating in this course, Barb Worth's non-financial disclosures.

 Barb has a [00:04:00] decade of experience working with the transgender and nonconforming population. Kate's financial disclosures. That's me. I am the owner and founder of grand bought therapy and consulting LLC. And co-founder of SLP nerd cast.

My non-financial disclosures. I'm a member of ashes, take 12 and serve on the AAC advisory group for Massachusetts advocates for children. I'm also a member of the Berkshire association for behavior analysis and therapy, the association for behavior analysis international in the corresponding speech pathology and applied behavior analysis.

Special interest.

[00:04:27] Amy Wonkka: Amy that's me. My financial disclosures are that I am an employee of a public school system and co-founder of SLP nerd cast. And my non-financial disclosures are that I am a member of Asha I'm in special interest group 12, and I serve on the AAC advisory group for Massachusetts advocates for children.

[00:04:45] Kate Grandbois: Okay, now that that's behind us, we are so thrilled to welcome our panel of guests. We hope everyone enjoys.

Welcome everybody. We are so excited to have this amazing panel of guests. Thank you so [00:05:00] much for joining us. We're so thrilled to listen to what you have to share and, and 

[00:05:06] Barb Worth: learn from you.

[00:05:09] Kate Grandbois: I'm Kate. Uh, it's lovely to meet you. My pronouns are she her? And I'm a speech language pathologist I've been practicing for over 10 years. Um, and I'm really, really excited to learn from you all today.

[00:05:25] Barb Worth: My name is Amy. I'm 

[00:05:26] Guest 2: also a speech language pathologist. My pronouns are she her? I've been a speech language pathologist for over 15 years, which sounds like a 

[00:05:34] Barb Worth: long time when I say it out loud. Uh, thank you 

[00:05:37] Guest 2: so much for joining us. And I'm so excited to having a conversation 

[00:05:41] Barb Worth: with you all today. My name. So now I'm gonna 

[00:05:44] AC Goldberg: make, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Oh, no, this is great. No, I was gonna say, you know, um, we should go in order of speech seniority here. So, oh. Um, my name, um, is AC Goldberg, my pronouns, or he, him and his, I am a speech pathologist. Um, and I am also a transgender person. [00:06:00] Um, and I have been a speech language pathologist now for almost 20 years.

[00:06:05] Barb Worth: And I am Barb worth. I use she, her pronouns and this spring, it will be 30 years that I am a speech language pathologist. So why don't we start with April may. 

[00:06:19] Guest 2: Hi, uh, I'm April, may I use she, her pronouns? Um, I've been doing, um, uh, I guess gender framing, voice therapy for. Uh, I, since last spring, right? Yeah.

So less than a year. Um, and yeah, I'm, I'm trans F um, that's my intro. Yay, Eddie. Nice to meet 

[00:06:42] Guest 1: you. Hey there. Uh, my name's Eddie, um, uh, my pronouns are he hang and, uh, I'm a trans guy and, uh, I'm a visual artist and a singer, uh, musician. So yeah, I'm, I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me. 

Fantastic. 

[00:06:59] Barb Worth: And Julia, [00:07:00] 

[00:07:01] Guest 3: hello everyone.

I'm Julia. Um, I go by, she, her, um, I am a transgender woman. I went to Barb's program at Emerson, uh, in 20 18, 20 19, and really loved it. It was my happy space. Um, so, um, yeah, so I use those techniques. I learned there every day in my job as a software developer, happy to meet everybody. 

[00:07:26] Barb Worth: Beautiful. Well, let's start with what brought all of you to, um, receive gender affirming or gender aligning, voice modification.

And whoever wants to go first, 

[00:07:44] Guest 3: um, I can start off. Yeah, so I, um, I started my gender affirmation, uh, like, uh, hormone. Uh, treatment for myself, uh, in June of 2019. And, uh, I, I had some family [00:08:00] stuff going on and I, it was a big interruption in my life, got back home and the COVID hit. So I was, uh, I basically, my voice started changing basically during, uh, like COVID lockdowns when I wasn't no longer.

Talking to people regularly, just like, you know, not didn't have those everyday situations to go out and, and practice my new voice. So I, I looked up, but I, I thought, you know, I should, I should really be working on this. I can't just let it go. Um, you know, it's a little bit, when you go through such a personal change with something as personal as your voice, Like drastically changing, you know, it's, uh, it's emotional you when, when, when you lose your voice.

So, um, I, I did some Googling and I found AC and I was super excited because it was like one of the first pages I found was, um, you know, it was a blog article that he wrote and I was as a trans, uh, person. I, [00:09:00] I didn't know if there'd be anything that would be inclusive. I thought it would maybe be very. I don't know, retrograde or something.

I don't know. I was still a little pessimistic. So when I found C's article, I was, I was filled with hope and so I like contacted him right away. So, yeah. It's good. 

[00:09:18] Guest 2: Beautiful. 

[00:09:20] AC Goldberg: That me so happy DY. I'm just so happy to see you. And so happy that you're here working with you is so much fun. 

[00:09:27] Guest 3: awesome. Yeah, no, I, I really enjoyed our sessions together and, uh, it was just really helpful.

Like at first I thought it was just gonna be. You know, I've come from a music background. So I thought a lot of it would be, you know, pitch and intonation and, and things like that. Like something from that, but just having that, your, your specialty and just, uh, you know, you really taught me a lot about, you know, like habituated voice.

That was very important for me, cuz I had this general sense that, you know, a lot of psychology goes behind. Gender, you [00:10:00] know, gendered ways that we speak in our various cultures. Um, things like that, but I didn't really know. I didn't have, you know, the foundational knowledge. So it was really cool how you taught MEAC about that.

And it helped, you know, even though I was, I, I still felt like I was really at the beginning of. Of my, my progress, cuz it, you know, it takes a while to process everything you learn, even in those individual sessions. And then, you know, I still society was still kind of shut down. So I mean, talking to my cat or talking to my partner.

You know, I was, uh, mimicking David from shits Creek for a while. We had that, oh 

[00:10:37] AC Goldberg: my gosh, that was the best. Oh my gosh. That was the absolute best. you not wanting to lose? I remember you not wanting to lose your, your posity because, um, you wanted to have that expression in your voice, but you felt like in order to stay in the range that made you feel affirmed in your gender, that you had to not have those peaks.

I remember that that was so much fun. [00:11:00] Um, 

[00:11:00] Guest 3: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I, uh, I didn't realize how in my mind, like, um, a certain way of speaking, like to me, felt more masculine, but then it didn't sound expressive and I've done a lot of work since like it that's still sinking in for me. And I'm still, it's still something like the foundation you gave me.

I was still something I work on every day. Now that I'm out working, I've got. You know, I've got other, um, friends who are identify as trans-masculine trans male and like seeing how they pitch their voice. It's just like that what you taught me, plus having now these experiences of like living day to day with this new voice, it's, it's still changing a bit, but.

You know, having that knowledge has really increased my confidence a lot. And it's like, I, I, I, I went from feeling like, oh no, like, am I ever gonna be able to like, speak like, this is it's a little bit scary to like feeling empowered and you know, it's a really good thing. So. [00:12:00] Yeah, thanks again for I'm glad I found you.

oh God. I'm so glad 

[00:12:05] AC Goldberg: that you're here. Um, I, we have so many more questions and maybe we'll circle, um, back to you, but, um, Barb, can I ask one of your clients to answer a question? Um, uh, just be in order of arrival, I'm gonna ask April may, um, what brought you to sort of seek out this type of service? Like, what was your.

How did you initiate the process? Like what was it in you that wanted that? 

[00:12:31] Guest 2: Uh, yeah, I was actually, uh, off of a lot of things that Eddie said, cause I really did a lot to that. Um, there was originally, I started off by myself, like going online and like on YouTube. Um, and. It's rough, um, doing that alone. Um, because I think, I mean, inherently speaking is a very like two person thing.

Uh, and it's to nowhere there to hear it, it, it can feel very hopeless. And, um, [00:13:00] so I, I ended up seeking out, um, Something more, uh, professional because, uh, I was originally a very extroverted person and I was finding that, um, I was becoming less, I was becoming like an introvert, um, just because I was afraid to speak, um, and, and be perceived in a way.

That was not how I wanted to be perceived, especially because, um, I, I started college last year. Um, so it was like coming into a new environment and being like, seen as a person. Um, and it was, that was my, um, my decision was like, as I, I came to school was like, I'm just gonna be like the person I am for the first time socially transitioning and then medically transitioning.

But. I, I was feeling really unmotivated. Um, cuz I think there's a lot of, a lot of things that can really, um, [00:14:00] bring you down when you. Don't feel like your voice aligns? Um, simply because I think, um, when you're dysphoric and you're transitioning and you're trying to be a different way, it's easy to forget how you look and, um, kind of block that out, but it's very, very hard to not hear how you sound when you speak.

Um, so I ended up actually. Um, Googling like, um, voice, um, therapy, gender affirming care. And, um, one of the first things that came up was, uh, my college website, cuz I, I actually go to Emerson and I was very confused. Found out was a, um, whole. Um, program that was, uh, one block away from me. and, uh, yeah, that's how I ended up getting into it.

And I'm really, really glad that I did 

[00:14:55] Guest 1: well. We're so happy to have 

[00:14:56] Barb Worth: you. Yeah. And April may, [00:15:00] um, received both individual and then also group work, right? 

[00:15:04] Guest 2: Yeah. I was originally just, um, solo, um, and that was all online. And then, um, this last, uh, summer session I was doing though in a. 

[00:15:14] Barb Worth: Great. Well, we, we love having you and Julia.

So Julia also, um, was with our program for a while and received, um, individual and group therapy. And I don't remember how you initially found us and I don't remember, you know, what initially tell us, you know, kind of the same question. What, what were you thinking about your voice? Why did you want to modify it?

[00:15:37] Guest 3: Okay. So, um, so I was a pretty late transitioner and, uh, yeah, I've been speaking a certain way my whole life, you know, for decades. And, um, you know, when you're transitioning, it's a lot, um, you know, I couldn't look really BA you know, beyond two weeks, um, without just having so much anxiety. So I pushed really my.

[00:16:00] I always knew. I wanted to try to, you know, um, have a different voice. Um, but I really, I couldn't deal with it at all. Um, you know, during the first part of my transition, so it all kind of came to a head as I, I went to New York city once by myself. Um, during that year I was transitioning and, um, I took the bus there.

And came back the same bus the next day. And, you know, I was trying, so the, the bus, there was some confusion about the schedule. So the buses were not leaving from the station. They were leaving from like a block, you know, this other place that had to walk to myself. And I didn't know which bus was mine, and I was scared to speak to anybody.

I just, you know, I just didn't want to be visible because of my voice. Um, it was a scary experience. Like I, you know, I didn't know who to trust and like who I could talk to and like, you know, out myself as trans and you know, it just, it was really scary. And eventually I, I [00:17:00] found my boss and I just got on the bus and I broke down crying and I'm like, I have to do something about this, you know?

Um, so I did, I put it on my list and, um, actually. I didn't find out about, um, the Emerson program, my wife actually Googled around and found it and said, Hey, this looks like a good program. Um, I had just also like looked at YouTube videos and I also, I bought like a DVD of, you know, techniques and things like that, but it was really hard, like April may said to, to do those yourself, um, cuz you're like highly technical, you know, in the exercises.

And you know, I was just trying to see if. A professional could really help me. And yeah, so that, um, so that's what led me to em, 

[00:17:48] Barb Worth: Beautiful. And I'm curious, and this is a question for you, Julian, for everybody. Um, you know, did you enter into it sort of with this very clear idea of what you were looking for or [00:18:00] was this something that evolved along the way?

And that's really a question for anybody. Yeah. Julia. 

[00:18:06] Guest 3: Yeah. Yeah. So, no, I had, no, I didn't know what I was capable of. You know, like Uhhuh , I didn't know what voice I was capable of. And I remember, um, somebody asking me like, well, what, what's kind of your voice model? And I'm like, I don't know. Like, I, I don't know if I can sail like her or, you know, or her mm-hmm

Um, I just wanna sound like me. Um, so it, it was very hard to know, you know, what I was capable of and yeah. So I, I didn't, you know, I didn't have anything specific in mind. I just wanted to, what I really wanted was to be gendered correctly without where a she, her button on my chest. So, yeah. 

[00:18:46] Guest 1: Yeah. Beautiful.

[00:18:48] Guest 2: Anybody else? Yeah. April a. Yeah. You might know Barb. Um, from watching my sessions, I, I have gone through a million variations of my voice. Um, [00:19:00] and honestly personally change it, um, almost daily mm-hmm um, I, I identify as gender fluid specifically. Um, so some days I am feeling a more, um, Usually like a more masculine, fem voice versus like a very fem found voice.

But, um, yeah, like going in initially, um, just like Julia said, uh, you don't really know what's there, you know, like, like you don't know what you don't know. Right. And, um, it's like, it's honestly to like learning a whole. Skill whole new like language, essentially with like learning how to modulate and like seeing where that can take you.

Um, and then like learning the different aspects. Um, modulation and playing with like, oh, I want to be like breathy. And like, my resonance is forward today. Or like, I want my resonance to be like back more, but like, I [00:20:00] want my pitch to still be high or it like all these different, like variations of, of the, those things can like make different voices.

And, um, I don't know. I've I had a wonderful time explor. 

[00:20:12] Barb Worth: Well, and I also know April, may you also do some online work and you, and you do some D and D right? So, yeah. So it's important for you to have a lot of versatility in your voice, 

[00:20:23] Guest 2: correct? Yeah. I, um, I do like. A little bit of voice acting. Um, I play Dungeons and dragons, uh, and do like other role play games.

And I usually, uh, run that. So I like to, um, well, I honestly just like to use my, my transness as like a boon in that situation because, um, I, I, a lot of, um, People, I mean, a lot of DMS, can't just be like, oh, hi, how are you doing? And then in the next like, voice go like, hello? Like, how are you? it's [00:21:00] I don't know.

I think it's a, it's a skill and it, uh, can catch people off guard and, um, I like to utilize it and I feel comfortable doing so. So, um, it's, it's fun. I love, I love it. 

[00:21:12] Barb Worth: Exploration is what it's all about. We use that, that term constantly in our clinic. Don't we? April, may . Yeah, that's great. And you embrace that and I really 

[00:21:20] Guest 3: appreciate that.

Yeah, it can 

[00:21:22] Guest 2: definitely be scary. I think until I got to this, um, like group work vocal group, um, the idea of going outside of. What was expected of me, cuz I even like when you're like in a, like a, a session trying to like change your voice, there's like this expectation specifically like myself as a trans feminist that like, I want to like move my voice in a feminine way.

And, and to an extent I really do, but um, to another extent, like sometimes I'm not feeling that way and yeah. Um, I think it's a really, it's a really. Tool to be able to, [00:22:00] um, change so fluidly because, um, it really just allows like versatility and your presentation. Um, and makes me feel good. So, 

[00:22:11] Barb Worth: and you're good at it.

so Eddie, I'm thinking you could probably relate to this 

[00:22:17] Guest 3: conversation. Yeah, for sure. Like, I think, uh, some of the expectations that changed for me was just, uh, AC went over, you know, just like analyzing different, um, voices in terms of gender. Like I'm, I'm good at analyzing singing voices. But, um, when it comes to speaking voices, it's just interesting to I'm after the sessions, I I'm paying attention more to people's everyday speaking voices, how I would gender them just based off of sound alone.

It's, it's, it's difficult, right? When you always have a visual and to break things down. And I didn't really realize how narrow my own sort of, um, I guess [00:23:00] biases towards voices and gender, just like the actual technical, um, makeup of a voice and, um, with ity and, and pitch and Tomber and things, and, uh, sort of expectations I'd put on myself.

And, uh, yeah, so I, and I feel like I was sort of in a place where I always just push my voice down, um, to speak and say things and. It was hard on my voice. And I was like, oh, low, you know, I wanna be masculine or whatever, but it's like, it was difficult cuz I was having a hard time expressing my personality fully.

So I think that's the expectation I wasn't expecting to, um, Uproot a lot of internalized biases in terms of gender. I thought I was a little more open minded, so it's a really good learning experience. And it's actually taught me things now that I'm working on my singing voice more, the sessions with AC has helped me increase that.

Sort of, uh, you know, [00:24:00] that analytical ability with singing voices as well, because, because it was such an internalized bias, um, you know, Yeah, I'm, I'm able to use it in other ways to explore and experiment with my singing voice as well. So that was, that was really unexpected. And that's just been in the past few weeks that I really have done some, some different things with a certain range, um, with my, like a higher, um, sort of breathy singing voice that I was like, oh, All these, there's all these male singers out there, or however they identify.

Um, and I, I was thinking about their voice voices in a very specific way. And now that I've had this, uh, you know, these sessions, I'm able to sort of be more analytical in a way that's like really helpful. And it's, uh, I don't know. It's, it's made me more expansive. So I really appreciate that, uh, sort of, uh, personal insight and upgrading.

Of my own knowledge with it. So yeah, hopefully that makes sense. that's 

[00:24:59] AC Goldberg: so cool. [00:25:00] Yeah, that's so cool. I just, the fact that you are a singer and a performer and that you're able to take this and, you know, carry it into that space is really awesome. And the fact that it makes you feel I. Empowered to explore like a head voice or whatever it is that you're talking about at the top of your range.

Um, I've recently started doing that as well as someone who's a singer who has been actively kind of not singing, um, because of sort of discomfort around the fact that my voice changed and you know, how do I get my vibe in my singing? With my new voice. And I know that I'm not gonna center my own voice experiences in this podcast, but, um, I think it's really important for people to know that there's a component of, you know, Some people who are very attached to their singing voice, regardless of, you know, um, whether they're an actual performer, um, might experience a tremendous amount of grief when, um, you know, when trying to align their voice with their gender, that they can no longer [00:26:00] sing, um, in a certain way, or that they want to be able to sing and express themselves in a certain way.

And, um, it's hard for them to figure out how to explore that and still feel aligned with their gender. And I'm so happy that you're doing that. And Julia, I saw your like brow raise a few times during, um, while Eddie was talking. Did you have thoughts that you wanted to add? Um, well, just 

[00:26:23] Guest 3: about the singing, I, I totally get that.

Um, I used to, you know, like doing karaoke and stuff like that, but I've, I've avoided it, um, since transitioning my voice. Um, and, um, you know, I'm getting to the point now where I think, you know, I'm singing in the shower a lot. Um, and I haven't actually, I I've been meaning to record myself singing, to see, you know, really how it sounds.

Um, but I think I'm getting close to, you know, that breakthrough. I mean, it takes a while, you know, you have to develop confidence in it. Um, but yeah, I, I, I took completely feel. Yeah, Julia, one of the things I [00:27:00] don't know if this is helpful at all, but recording yourself is a wonderful tool. That's I've done that throughout my whole life with singing, just recording and playing back.

I do it ad nauseum. Like , I, I have hard drives full of just like singing practice because having that feedback of your own voice is just for me, it's been a technique that's I've been able. Fully like changed my voice in so many ways by doing that. Um, and I just really appreciated AC what you said about like grief and, and voice changes.

Because I don't know, as a trans guy, when I had what would be considered a more feminine, uh, singing voice, like I was a high soprano, a very soaring notes and. To sort of deal with that. Psychologically, that person, that voice sort of had to become a character for me. And it represented sort of, I don't know, almost like a Sonic shield for like my emotions.

Cause I was like, this person, this voice is not what I would've chosen, but this is the voice that I have to express myself. [00:28:00] And when you get to a certain place with singing, when you're able to sing from your heart and it's technically, you know, it sounds good and people you're able to connect. With people with your voice, losing that after so many years was definitely an emotional process, but also being, feeling more affirmed when I went through my vocal changes was great.

And, um, You know, Julia speaking about like safety issues, like, you know, as a trans person being gendered properly is like everything being safe in, in public spaces, in relationships, things like that. And so to have that sort of, it's like, you know, to sort of profound things, intention, you're like, you're becoming, you're sounding more like yourself, but you're also losing something.

And I feel like I'm sort of always working through. Um, but then what April said about also having fun with just like being able to experiment, cuz you've had so many voice [00:29:00] now I've had so many voices in my life, you know, you can have a lot of fun with it too. So it's uh, I'm really appreciating this discussion.

It's like, yeah, it's really good. So, 

[00:29:10] Barb Worth: you know, we're, we're sort of talking about all the ways that you U you all use your voice, um, all the different settings context, and I'm wondering, you know, how do you work on your voice outside of formal training? You know, so all of you have received formal training from either AC or I, or, and, and maybe elsewhere as well, but, you know, do you have.

Program a warmup. Are there things specifically that you do when you are, um, when you're not with us and you've talked a little bit about that, but I'd like to hear more. 

[00:29:47] Guest 3: Um, yeah, for me, I, I hope it's okay. That I'm speaking again. I don't wanna take up too much, but, um, yeah, I this keyboard I, uh, having a keyboard, even if it's not a full ranged [00:30:00] piano or whatever, for me, um, having a, um, an instrument where you can work on pitch and, uh, you know, yeah.

I feel like without. There's no anchor of like notes and I mean, I'm a musician, so that's my background, uh, piano, especially, um, I find with a confidence thing with, um, like resonance and tone. If you're not having, like, for me, if I'm having a tired voice day, it can be a little bit, you know, it can affect confidence a little bit having that, like a keyboard or, or a instrument that you're sort of resonating with.

It's um, You know, your vocal chords are vibrating as so as the instrument and having that sound buffer, you know, and sort of helping you, it's almost like a, a sound friend there, you know, all the notes mm-hmm and you can kind of match that. So it's, uh, you have something to sing with or, or to even just, you can use it with your, I can use it with my speaking [00:31:00] voices.

Well, and check where my range is, so sure. That's that's, what's been helpful to me, so beautiful. 

[00:31:07] Guest 2: I I think for me, um, I, I just have this, I, and I'm so thankful for this incredible support system with my friends right now. Um, where essentially, um, like most of my friends have been the chance that start. Of my transition.

Um, and so they understand that like, essentially I'm a work in progress , um, which is okay. It's like, it's okay to be, um, finding yourself and like, not, not know who, like you are quite yet, or to not to, to know who you are, but to not be there yet. Um, and I think, I think most of it for me is like, is just this mental barrier that comes with, um, Right.

I guess, practicing, um, and over exploring your voice, um, in social settings. Right? [00:32:00] And so, cause, cause I think, um, you know, you can sit down for an hour a day and, and practice a voice, but you're not gonna get nearly as much as if you, you know, you go out to dinner with a friend and you just, um, You just, you just explore.

Um, and sometimes I tell my friends like, oh, my voice is probably gonna change a lot. Um, like, and, and they know that as like, if, if in one like sentence, I sound one way I want sentence said another way. And it's because, you know, in my head I'm, I'm thinking about it and I'm trying new things. Or, or sometimes I.

Um, these, um, I'm trying to think of the word for them. The, the, the words you say to get you back to your voice. Um, if that makes sense, I'm not sure if there's any anchor words. I like anchor words. Yeah. Yeah. And so just like telling your friends, like, yeah, sometimes I'm gonna go 1, 2, 3, 4, and like, just ignore it.

cause it's, it's just gonna happen. But [00:33:00] yeah, uh, that and something I've been enjoying recently as like a, a warmup, um, for me to kind of find my, my like voice of the day, if you will, um, is I will say hi in like every different voice I have going up and down, um, at one is a warmup, um, to kind of get my voice like going.

Um, and also I find that if you. Work out the, like your whole vocal range. It makes it easier to then like choose a specific one and like set to it. But, um, yeah, that's, that's kind of my, my process. Um, 

[00:33:34] Barb Worth: Beautiful. So, you know, so it sounds like we've talked a little bit about warmups. We've talked a little bit about the, the, the importance of having social support of having places to practice.

You talked about anchor words, which are fantastic. So little, little things that we can interject to kind of reset the voice. Um, we talked about use of the piano. Um, Julia, I'm wondering, can you add to that list? Just ? 

[00:33:57] Guest 3: Sure. Um, so, so pre COVID I used [00:34:00] to commute to work and Uhhuh used to go to this thing called an.

Um, um, yeah, so, um, I used to, uh, so I would take the bus to his place and I would have like a 15 minute walk from there. So I would walk down the street alone and I would be doing my pitch. Whoops. Um, ah, You know, I would try to make sure nobody was around me cause I I'm sure I sounded crazy doing on them, but like, you know, they were kind of like woo, like that, you know, and going up and down.

Um, and then I would have my AirPods in and I would, I would bring up voice analysts on my phone and ah, I would just talk. I would talk about my day, what I was gonna do. And then I would listen, listen back to it. Um, and you know, that's how I would commute to work. So I'd get kind of like ready before I went into the office, um, to do that.

Um, so then, you know, then we all, you know, came home to work and you know what, that, that did. I found a really good advantage of [00:35:00] that and that's that I could bring my iPad right here by my computer. And I could record myself during meetings, um, because we all know that like, so I, I still bring up, like to gets secure in the rainbow package.

And, and I, I read those, but like, I'm performing kind of, but like when you're, when you're talking like in a meeting like this, it's totally different, like you're not. Thinking about every word you're giving, you're giving the, um, your speech, like only like 10 or 20% of your cognitive, you know, load. And, uh, as opposed to like, when you're practic, when you're doing, you know, reading it specifically, your all your mind is focused on that.

Um, so, so, yeah, so that was really illuminating, like taking myself during meetings and I would then listen back to it and. The things I was very unhappy with. I would just say them again and again, and felt like I got it. Right. And, um, that was really helpful because it's, cuz those moments when you're not focused completely on your speech, when you know what I found that I [00:36:00] let myself down a lot during those moments.

So, you know, really that, that drilling of those common things that you say really helped. Yeah, the, 

[00:36:11] AC Goldberg: the everyday the everyday words. Um, I have a question. I know we're, we're about to run out of time, but, um, I, I want, um, to ask you all sort of how this process and how, um, you know, the clinical relationship that you had, um, with, you know, myself with Barb, uh, with anyone that you may have worked with at Emerson, how that compares to.

Other types of healthcare services that you've received, um, you know, relating to, or not relating to gender. Um, you know, what, what that sort of felt like to you? Um, similarities, differences, um, you know, um, I want our listeners to be able to, you know, understand a little bit of, um, a little bit of what that felt like to you.

[00:36:58] Guest 2: I [00:37:00] specifically with the Robin center, I've felt like they've been great. Um, I think when, when it comes to like transcare, or just like how, like going into a hospital in general as a trans person, um, I think like no event is good. If that makes any sense. I think there's a lot of. Um, specifically me in the past, going into a hospital and being like, oh, my name is this, but my legal name is this or them coming in and like asking questions about, you know, transness and it's like a.

Maybe, um, I don't know, you're my doctor. Maybe you should have known that going in, but, um, I don't know. I've always felt like none of that is like up for questioning when I'm, um, specifically going into the, the Robin center. So like that that's honestly been a, a big deal for. For comfort. It's just like, [00:38:00] um, not even just feeling seen, but like feeling that like being accepted within the space was never in question.

You know what I mean? Like, um, it's almost like, um, like when you, when you see people putting an effort to make you feel comfortable, that's great. But, um, just. Effortless comfort is I think the same, the amazing thing as a trans person to experience, cuz it's not something you get to experience a lot. So I, I think it's a really big deal 

[00:38:34] Barb Worth: that that makes me just feel so happy.

I can't even tell you. I'm actually 

[00:38:38] AC Goldberg: tearing up. I'm here. I'm tearing up and I don't work there because it just, I know what it's like to experience that it's really genuine.

[00:38:50] Guest 3: I, I would just second that like, um, you know, I, I, all, all my experiences, like outside of Robin center, like you, you have to be on guard, you know, you have to like [00:39:00] really watch out for yourself and like, let everybody know who you are. Um, and. You know, still then things go wrong. Uh, and it hurts. It really hurts.

So, um, I never felt that at the Robinson, I think that's one of the reasons why it was my happy place. Um, you know, cuz it was just, it was, I was having fun. I was in a group experience. Um, you know, it was students teaching me, you know, so it was like, you know, being around a lot of young, enthusiastic people and like other trans people.

And I just, I, I, it was just a really positive experience among my other trans health that I, that I sought out. It was not the best. 

[00:39:41] Barb Worth: Thank you, Julia. I'm curious too. Um, and for this is for you, Eddie, um, what specifically do you think our listeners should be paying attention to? You know, let's sort of take it the next step of 

[00:39:59] Guest 1: what 

[00:39:59] Barb Worth: [00:40:00] advice, what would you say?

Like when people are thinking about offering these, uh, sorts of services, 

[00:40:07] Guest 1: what do we, what do we need to do better?

Eddie 

[00:40:13] Guest 3: I dunno, I had, I had had a really good experience with AC. I mean, I was yeah. Isolated at home and feeling alone, and then I've got AC and again, like, yeah. What, uh, Julia was saying about it, you know, kind of feeling like effortless, acceptance and feeling. You know, I belonged it was a zoom window, but you know, when you're, when you go out into the world as a trans person and yeah, you have to be in guard, you have to any room you're in any space, you know, you just have to, I don't know.

That's how I feel. You're always in a defensive posture. So, um, I just think, you know, any healthcare practitioner, whether it's in your field or, you know, otherwise it's, uh, paying attention to content like AC puts out on transplanting, [00:41:00] things like that. Just really being open, continuing to in the conversation.

And yeah, like, I, I feel like this, like, what you're doing is, is great. Just this session is exactly just more of this mm-hmm . 

[00:41:17] Guest 1: Yeah, beautiful. 

[00:41:19] Guest 2: April may. Yeah, I was just gonna add onto something. I think you actually said earlier about, um, implicit bias and, um, specifically like the idea of, um, like, I guess maybe even like internalized transphobia.

Yeah. And like perceptions of gender that we have. Um, and I think my most important thing in the thing I tell people, um, when they're like coming into contact with trans people, working with trans people, and maybe there's just maybe their gender group as well. Um, I think either way, um, I think, uh, implicit bias and, um, checking those implicit biases has to be something that's active.[00:42:00] 

Um, I don't think it's something, you know, you do, and then it's done, um, as, as amazing as that would be. I think, um, you have to continue to, um, the send to those people. Um, Who are experiencing, um, I guess like different levels of privilege than you. Um, and just like, keep, I guess, updating your internal map of, um, just, just the ways you, you treat others in regards to their identity, especially with something as like sensitive as, um, you know, voice care.

Um, An active assessment of Biase is a, a huge deal. And it goes a long way. 

[00:42:48] Guest 1: Yes. Yes. Thank you for that. 

[00:42:51] Barb Worth: Great. And I think that it's a good message that we need to continue. That it isn't something you just check the box, right? It has to be something that we [00:43:00] do on a daily basis on an ongoing basis. 

[00:43:03] Guest 2: What is something you learn as like a trans person, cuz um, I, I think being trans and transitioning a big part of that is mental because, um, just like anyone else you're socialized.

In a certain way towards gender, uh, and you're raised into a society that treats it a certain way. And, um, you, you can find this dissonance in your own sense of self because you were raised one way, but, um, you feel a different way in, in those clash. And so, yeah, it's, I think it's a big deal. 

[00:43:34] Guest 1: Yeah. Thank you 

[00:43:36] Barb Worth: for.

[00:43:36] AC Goldberg: thank you all so much for, for just being here and holding the space with us. I know that we're, you know, kind of coming to a close and, um, thank you so much for being willing to come on here. And like your ongoing, just vulnerability in this conversation is really appreciated because you know, the listener, the people who will listen to this podcast, you know, they're going to be faced with [00:44:00] potentially serving the trans population.

Um, and. I think that, you know, it's at the utmost importance that they understand how vulnerable we are in clinical spaces. Um, and you know, how important it is to engage in culturally responsive practices. Um, because we do come with so much, we do bring so much baggage from other clinical interactions, um, into these spaces.

And I just I've had such a wonderful. Time, listening to your voices and listening to your stories. And I know Barb is doing such amazing work, um, and Eddie, it is so wonderful to see you, Kate and Amy, thank you so much for holding this space for us here today. Thank you 

[00:44:38] Kate Grandbois: all so much for all of this. I have enjoyed this conversation so much, and I'm so grateful for your time and vulnerability and, and sharing your stories with our audience.

Really. So. 

[00:44:50] Guest 2: Agreed. Thank you all so very much. And it was, it was lovely to virtually meet you all too. Thank you 

[00:44:56] AC Goldberg: so much trans joy. I just agree so much [00:45:00] trans joy right now. Like, like so much of it. It's just like overflow. Um, and if I didn't 

[00:45:06] Kate Grandbois: Thank you so much for joining us in today's episode, as always, you can use this episode for ASHA CEUs. You can also potentially use this episode for other credits, depending on the regulations of your governing body. To determine if this episode will count towards professional development in your area of study.

Please check in with your governing bodies or you can go to our website, www.slpnerdcast.com all of the references and information listed throughout the course of the episode will be listed in the show notes. And as always, if you have any questions, please email us at info@slpnerdcast.com

thank you so much for joining us and we hope to welcome you back here again soon.

Brand block indicates course is offered for .05 ASHA CEUs. SLP Nerdcast is an ASHA Continuing Education Approved Provider.