Improv: Your New Favorite Therapy Technique
This is a transcript from our podcast episode published March 13th, 2023. The podcast episode is offered for .05 ASHA CEUs. This transcript is made available as a course accommodation for and is supplementary to this episode / course. This transcript is not intended to be used in place of the podcast episode with the exception of course accommodation. Please note: This transcript was created by robots. We do our best to proof read but there is always a chance we miss something. Find a typo? Email us anytime.
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Episode
[00:01:41] Kate Grandbois: Welcome everyone to today's episode. We are so excited to welcome back a guest who has been on our show before. Welcome Dr. Ali Arena. You are here today to talk to us about the use of improv and therapy, and I'm so excited. Welcome back to the show.
[00:01:58] Ali Arena: Yeah. Thanks for having me. I love [00:02:00] being on with you guys
[00:02:02] Kate Grandbois: Before we get started, and you, uh, put me through some very uncomfortable and awkward games and put me on the spot that you, that you gave me a warning about.
This is gonna be an entertaining one, everybody. Yeah. Um, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to know improv.
[00:02:19] Ali Arena: Yeah. Okay. So it's actually interesting. I wanted to take improv cuz I was reading a trauma book and it helps you feel more in your body. The thought of being put on the spot was terrifying, which kind of made me be like, wait a second.
I do that to my clients all the time cuz I'm asking them open-ended questions cuz that used to be a goal I would always have for people. Right? And so I found improv through one my cousin, she does it for a living. And then my really good friend, Maya Watkins, who I will refer to a decent amount in this presentation, she teaches it specifically for Neurodiverse children.
[00:03:00] So her and I had paired up because she was, oh, you work with Neurodiverse children, so do I. Let's run a group. And I really saw the power of not running a typical social skills group, right? I really saw the beauty in not having all the structure going with the flow. So things that we're actually trying to teach these kids, but we don't model all that often.
Um, and I've just learned you know, improv is a pretty good rapport builder because, I'm gonna kind of put you on the spot, Kate. It's a little uncomfortable and it's good. It's kind of nice for, you know, your clients to see, oh, you can feel uncomfortable too, or We're learning together. So, I don't know.
I just found it a great tool.
[00:03:43] Kate Grandbois: I am a creature of comfort. I don't like change and I like to be in my routine. I'm already feeling a little nervous about what you're gonna, what you're gonna do, but I think you make an amazing point that this is what we are asking people to do when [00:04:00] they learn in our therapy rooms, is to be vulnerable and be put on the spot and have to engage in something new and different that makes 'em uncomfortable.
So I'm here for it. You're gonna coach me through it and everything is gonna be fine. It's gonna be great. Um, before we, before we get started, I do need to read our learning objectives. So learning objective number one, identify the four competencies of the improv method that foster interpersonal relationships facilitate healing from trauma and that relate to neurodiverse minds.
Learning objective number two, identify three games that correlate with your specific therapeutic interventions, and learning objective number three, identify the three core qualities of the improviser's mindset. Disclosures, Ali's, financial disclosures. Allie received an honorarium for participating in this course.
Ali's non-financial disclosures. Ali has no non-financial relationships to disclose. Kate, that's me. I am the owner and founder [00:05:00] of GrandboisTherapy and Consulting LLC and co-founder of SLP Nerd Cast. My non-financial disclosures. I'm a member of ASHA SIG 12 and serve on the AAC Advisory Group for Massachusetts Advocates for Children.
I'm also a member of the Berkshire Association for Behavior Analysis and Therapy, and the Association for Behavior Analysis International with the corresponding speech pathology and applied behavior analysis special interest group. Okay, we've gotten through the boring stuff. I think we should start with you telling us a little bit.
Improv. So when I think of improv, I think of Saturday Night Live, I think of Second City, I think it's called. Yeah. Cool. Um, the school that teaches the famous school that teaches improv, um, I think of standup comedy. I don't think of intervention. So tell us a little bit more about what improv is.
[00:05:48] Ali Arena: Yeah. So it, it is exactly what you're saying, right?
Improv is truly being in the moment and being flexible. So a big part of improv is a concept called, Yes, and [00:06:00] so , um, I wanna go out this weekend and I wanna have pizza. Yeah. And we should do this other thing. The other big part about improv is you can't be wrong. So it's not, um, yes. And I wanna go pee, get pizza, and then go to a circus and someone can't go, no, there's no circus this weekend.
You can't do that. There's no, you don't call people out. You really have to go with what a person is saying. So really talented improvisers, um, Will Ferrell, Steve Corell, these people The Office. A lot of that's improvised. You have to realize they're really present and they're just listening to what the person is saying.
Taking that and making another thought with it. Um, and you, when you look at that, that humor is so amazing cause it's so simple. They're not doing anything crazy. They're just being present, being flexible, and they have enough knowledge to keep going back and forth in a conversation. So if [00:07:00] you think about therapy, what we're really trying to do is help our students, clients, whatever words we wanna use to be more present, to have reciprocal conversation, to have more flexible thinking, to take perspective. And these are all things that an improviser is doing, but they learned them. Yes I think some people have a natural skill, unlike you and I who are , oh my God, don't put me on the spot.
Kate Grandbois:Please don't talk to me.
Ali Arena: But they still, they have learned these skills over time. Um, another thing about improvising is, You have to be pretty good at reading people's body language. You have to be okay with the unexpected. That is what improv is. Um, Tina Faye in her book, Bossy Pants, I don't know if you read that, talks about, I've seen it, I haven't read it, talks about how improv is The secret weapon and how, um, she talks about how the, lipstick basically someone just made that up, that's a creation that [00:08:00] someone was, oh, I'll just put in this little tube, and then women could put it on their lips.
She'd be, that's a form of improvising. It really is just taking a concept and continuing to go with it.
[00:08:10] Kate Grandbois:I love the component of not being able to be wrong. I think that alleviates so much of the pressure and insec, I, I'm speaking for myself here, the pressure and insecurity that you might feel when you're in a vulnerable position doing something new for the first time, and you don't wanna upset anyone.
You don't wanna say something, quote stupid, you don't wanna be made fun of. You don't wanna, you know, there's all of this insecurity and worry about your actions. So if one of the rules is that you can't be wrong, How much more fun is that that really alleviates so much of that pressure to perform, I guess.
[00:08:46] Ali Arena: Yeah, and it's, you know, uh, schools are now using improv a lot as processing groups. With Covid, they would use it, um, they would just kind of have these classes where they play games and we're gonna play a game [00:09:00] together. And it's more, you'll be surprised what kids will talk about, I did this, two or three years ago, and a lot of kids would say Trump. They'd be, Trump, Trump, Trump. And they were using it to be funny. But over time they were also saying other words, uh, , nuclear war, financial distractions. Oh my goodness, oh, okay. So if this is what you're saying in improv, this is what's on your mind, right?
It, sometimes kids do it for reaction, but other times you're , that's the thought that came to you that quickly. You are really thinking about this. So improv can also be a really good way to see. What's on someone's mind, right. If you, if you and I played in
[00:09:38] Kate Grandbois: sort of like a free flow sort of stream of consciousness. Yes. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. So how is the improv method as an intervention technique different from improv in general or, you know, as a general concept?
[00:09:57] Ali Arena: So I think with the [00:10:00] method, what, um, I did and, and Maya Walkins, she's a social and emotional, uh, counselor and teacher, and she created these games.
So I just wanna give her credit as we started to play. But her and I really sat and we’re, okay, what are things that we're constantly working on with the kiddos that we see. And we realize, we talk about self-agency a lot. We talk about executive functioning, we talk about interpersonal skills, and we talk about boundaries.
But if I were to sit with you and I was, okay, Kate, we're gonna talk about your boundaries. Are you following your time boundaries or do you have social boundaries? You would be like, no,
[00:10:33] Kate Grandbois: I just fell asleep. I'm not here anymore. I don't wanna be here.
[00:10:35] Ali Arena: And also, you can't say the word boundaries to a five-year-old.
That doesn't do anything. Right? Right. So we realized, okay, if these are things that we're talking about all the time, let's just create games that correlate with them. That's really what the improv method is. and I love it for my Neurodiverse kids and anyone who's had a decent amount of trauma [00:11:00] and typically my trauma and Neurodiverse kids are, they're both a lot of times, right.
But because if you think about someone with a neurodiverse brain, they often struggle with being in the moment and attending cuz they're so in their head. They struggle with black and white thinking. They struggle with perspective taking. So if you're creating games that directly relate to these, it's just a different way to have fun in therapy.
Um, I don't know, do you know who Esther Parrell is? She's a famous psychologist. She is, um, I love her. She has one of those amazing therapies, soothing voices. She has a great podcast, but her whole thing, she does a lot of couples counseling, but she just created a game and she did all this research about, essentially play is what's healed a lot of couples, not intensive therapy going back and forth with checklist checklists. It was play. So that's where the improv method has come from.[00:12:00]
[00:12:01] Kate Grandbois: Okay. That's awesome. That's really, really helpful. I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about, um, whether or not this intervention is used only in direct service from if in in, in other words, if we have people who are listening and thinking, okay, this might be a really nice tool for me to use in my sessions.
Is this something you can do one-on-one? Does it require a group? I'm thinking about, you know, what I've seen in improv, I, I guess commercially, it's almost always a group of individuals, but is this something that you can easily incorporate into your sessions regardless of what kind of service delivery model you have?
[00:12:39] Ali Arena: Yeah, so I definitely, I love group, um, purely just cuz you're getting more answers, right? Or you're getting more responses. But I do try to do improv a decent amount in my individual sessions as a continual rapport. Loosen up sometimes with my ADHD kiddos when they've just [00:13:00] gone, you know, to another place.
I try to bring 'em back with, um, an improv game. So I love this one game. I'll do one right now. Um, that's called. Zip zap zop. Right? And literally when I get to zop, you would turn and you and I would say a word, right? And let's say you said, Chocolate and I said Milk, then we're gonna turn back around and go zip Zap, zop and see if we can get a word that's almost the same.
So most likely you and I would say chocolate milk, but sometimes someone might say Spider-Man. And I might say, I
[00:13:34] Kate Grandbois: was gonna say this sounds maybe harder than .
[00:13:35] Ali Arena: Yeah, no, for sure. But
Kate Grandbois: I think sounds harder than maybe. I think it is,
Ali Arena: yeah. I mean, look, I think again, so you're not gonna be wrong, but you're also a clinician.
So let's say you do three rounds of that. You're still saying , you're trying and the kid's maybe not picking up on it. You're like, you know what? We need a new game. Let's try something different. Right. Okay. Um, so it's, again, it's, it's showing [00:14:00] that flexibility. I love when I'm doing improv with a client and they're quicker than me and I'm like, oh my God, wait.
You, this is a part of your brain I haven't seen. So that's another cool thing about when you're doing it individually, you might see strengths you didn't know they had. Um, there's a lot of research. I think it's even in our stuttering research, right? When kids are sort of acting or they're in a different form of themselves, you'll see a different version.
They're able to turn off some of those other barriers and you can see them really blossom. So I think, I think therapists have played games similar to this. Let's tell a story together. So a princess went to the forest and then, and you can have a kid fill in, right? and then you keep going back and forth.
So that's improv. It's, it's being flexible. The other thing, and I should have said this at the beginning, improv does not require supplies. So that's why it's so beautiful for group. It's great for [00:15:00] camp, it's great for parents in the car, right? There's no, you don't have to ha, there's no materials to do improv.
It is all imaginary and it's all on the spot.
[00:15:10] Kate Grandbois: That sounds awesome. Yeah. I'm looking at our first learning objective. Do you have in, in these four competencies? I, I feel like you've mentioned. You must have mentioned a handful of them already or some of them already. Do you have a list, like a concrete list of the competencies that go into successful, the successful application of the improv method?
[00:15:33] Ali Arena: Yeah, so again, it's hitting self-agency, executive functioning, interpersonal skills and boundaries, but so, What I do have is, I mean, we could go through, could I do a case study with you really quick to give you an example of, okay, so we're gonna talk about Paul. Paul is 32, he is autistic. He also has some childhood trauma.
Um, he is, uh, [00:16:00] in a lot of ways he is done really great. He's a personal trainer, but he's ready for more of a corporate job and he realized he's actually really good at coding. Um, so now he has to start interviewing. So originally I did the old school, okay, let's practice an interview back and forth and I'm gonna ask you questions and you're gonna tell me answers.
And it was the most painful thing ever. He actually deteriorated. I was, wait, no, we've had better conversations than this. What's happening? And I think it's, I put him on the spot, right? So when I started to say things, Okay, let's just do, yes, and let's get you outta your head.
Let's get movement going. Um, I would have him play numerous games and then we would start to do interview. He was much better. So, It with Paul, the fact that we did improv before his confidence increased, so I, it's kind of, it's a little bit like an ABA principle of shaping too, right? Okay, let's do a lot of things that you're gonna feel good and [00:17:00] successful at and confident before going into.
Maybe more of a strategic interview. The other thing about not being wrong is really helpful. If he says an answer that I'm, okay, there's more. I can literally say, okay, yes, and tell me more about this and tell me more about this. And by the end, we had a full answer. So I guess the competencies it's, or the, yeah, the competencies is really, That you are looking at what your client needs to do social and emotionally and seeing what games you can pair with it.
And I can give you Kate after a handout of games that match.
Kate Grandbois:That would be awesome. That would be awesome.
Ali Arena: Like YouTube videos, I think it's helpful for people to have a little bit of a reference, um, cuz it's hard vocally hearing someone do this. Um, and then I know you had also asked about just kind of , so what is the improviser's mindset right?
And I think it's important to remember that an improviser is going to be flexible, [00:18:00] right? So they're, they're open, they're observant. And this is something that I think is really important as, um, clinicians, we forget this. We can say , okay, new choice. , so if someone's doing something that's not working, we can show, you know what?
Let's do a new choice. Let's, um, this happens a lot. I don't know if you've ever been in a conversation with a client where, They've gone down a zone. Actually, I was just talking to a client who, um, was, is very upset about our political cl uh, climate, which fair, but he was going for a while, and so a little bit through it, I was, okay, you know what?
We're gonna be flexible right now. We're gonna do a new choice of topic. And it's just such an easier way of saying, let's change the topic as opposed to, You've been on this topic too long and it's not, it's too long and you've gone too far. And we need to,
[00:18:47] Kate Grandbois: which is so much negative feedback. I mean, that doesn't feel good, right?
I mean that's, you know, criticism. Yeah. Use plain language.
[00:18:56] Ali Arena: It is. And, but we, you know, I think as clinic, I'm guilty of [00:19:00] this, so I'm not like acting like I've never done that. I think we're taught so often to, our job is to support and in some ways correct. Right. So we might go into that mode and there's just, I think improv has taught me to be kinder and flexible in what I'm doing.
So that's part of the improviser's mindset. So just adding flexibility. Um, and also when you kind of have this mindset, you're able to simultaneously teach and learn. And what I mean about that is you're able to, when you are being flexible, I think you're able to take in what your client's saying a little bit more as opposed to being so in your head of, okay, we did this goal.
We have to move to this goal. And I've been there, we've all had crazy caseloads, but it just teaches you to be a little bit more flexible. The other big part of an improviser's mindset is receptivity. So it's patience to allow individuals to [00:20:00] practice the task at hand. Um, you have to trust your partner in improv.
You have to trust the clinician. You have to trust other people, um, and you have to trust that everyone's being present in a game. And it also really talks about receptivity, is listening, responding, and modeling. So let's say you and I are playing a game. And you, you kind of say something that I'm like, whoa, that was a little wacky.
I can model how to bring it back as opposed to, um, I am putting Kate on the spot. We did not rehearse this at all. Kate, what's your favorite? Um,
Kate Grandbois: here it comes. I'm ready.
Ali Arena:You ready? What's your favorite movie? But I want you to say something , Inappropriate. A movie that I would be , oh, we shouldn't talk about that one.
[00:20:44] Kate Grandbois: Um, let's see. Indecent proposal. Yeah.
[00:20:47] Ali Arena: Okay. Oh, indecent proposal.
[00:20:49] Kate Grandbois: Um, it dates me too.
[00:20:52] Ali Arena: It's fine. Moving on. I could be like indecent proposal. Proposal. Isn't that when people get married? Who hears a movie where people [00:21:00] get married? Right. So it's just , Moving it and I'm modeling a different way to talk about something.
Okay. I'm also modeling an appropriate transition. Um, but I, the receptivity is there and me saying indecent proposal. Okay, proposal and moving on. So I'm not saying , , that movie is rated R, you shouldn't see that movie. Or , how did you see that movie? Or , you know? Right, right.
[00:21:23] Kate Grandbois: Um, you're just kinda So it's a yes and instead of no, we don't talk about that here.
That was an appropriate Correct. Yourself, it's sort of reflecting and modeling way to shift towards something that might be received differently.
[00:21:39] Ali Arena: Yes. And you're modeling it for kids cuz there are plenty of things that are either said to kids or that's around them, that they don't know how to respond. You're modeling how to transition appropriately.
Um, and you're also, you're facilitating trust. Trust that I can say whatever, and you'll move it along. So let's say [00:22:00] you, I literally had a kid do this one time where you're playing a categories game and he would just go, Trump or Butt. Those were the only things he would say to me, . And so I would be , we'd go around.
And he would say, Trump. And I'd be like, yeah, Trump. Yes. And, and I would say orange hair, I'd be funny with it. And then a kid would go, oh, orange Pony. So again, I'm not, cuz when you pause, you make it weird for everyone. Right. You, if you go, oh, he's saying Trump. That gives him an opportunity to start saying whatever else. Um, so when you are more in the moment, you're able to move things along better. Um, and the last core quality of an improviser's mindset is adaptation. So it's being able to adapt, right? So it's building off the strengths of each individual.
It's having confidence that you're prepared for any situation that might come up while you're using your imagination.
[00:22:55] Kate Grandbois: That's huge. Yes. Yes. In life. I mean, I'm, I want, I, I feel like I [00:23:00] need to practice my own improv skills. I mean, these are really wonderful qualities to have in terms of quality of life and fulfillment as a person, not just because you have a communication disorder.
[00:23:12] Ali Arena: Absolutely. No, I com and that's why I think I love this so much and it's the last part of adaptation is just like. And learning what triggers may arise and adjusting your behaviors in a thoughtful way. So , you know, let's say I've had kids before. sexually has come up a lot. Um, I work with a lot of clients who are variant into anime, and I don't know if you know this, there's a huge debate over Subverse, not Subbed, right?
And , if you like subtitles, then you're not a true anime user. Right. Interesting. Yeah. I've learned so much about just things I never knew about, but, so I've been in debates with these individuals and we've been able to have them move, have the confidence to have their opinion, but to move on. So let's say I was like, no, Kate, [00:24:00] um, If you don't listen to things without subtitles, you don't really enjoy Japanese culture, okay, let's say I go there and you kind of sit there frozen.
I can intervene and say, yeah, you know what? I don't know that much about Japanese culture. Can people start to tell me parts of Japanese culture? Right? It's just a way of adapting what someone said, and if you do that enough, other people see it and they'll model that as well. That's what's really cool about these groups is I start to see.
Do what I'm doing. They basically make me not important, which is amazing. They, they kind of try to get me out of the group. I think that's great.
[00:24:39] Kate Grandbois: That's awesome. Well, I think it might be time to, for you to give me some games. What are some games that we can play? So what, and um, just for the sake of saying it, for everybody who's listening at home, we will thank you so much for offering the handout.
Yeah. It will be linked in the show notes. Um, and we'll have it available for download for free on our [00:25:00] website for anyone who is listening and would like to get a copy.
[00:25:04] Ali Arena: Perfect. I just need to canva it up a little bit. It just is links at the moment. Um, so, and I also, if people are interested, I can send you, I'll just confirm with Maya, she recorded some of these on YouTube and what's really cool is she made them adaptable to both verbal and non-verbal children.
So again, this is, you can usually, that's awesome. And be a part of improv. So here is, actually, we didn't review this one, Kate, she's on the spot right now. Um, this is one that you could do that's totally non-verbal. So Kate, I'm gonna give you a ball and you can hold this ball. And based on how you're feeling, you can make the ball smaller, you can make it huge, you can make it medium, and you're gonna pass it back to me.
So here's your ball.
[00:25:49] Kate Grandbois: You're gonna have to narrate for our use for our listeners. Yeah. On the podcast what I'm doing. Okay.
[00:25:54] Ali Arena: So, okay, so my hands are open. I hand Kate a ball. She now has the ball. Okay. Her ball's medium [00:26:00] sized. Um, can you give me back the ball?
Thank you. Oh, my ball just got so much bigger. All right, Kate, here's my big ball. What are you gonna, oh, nice. Okay. You kept it big. We could do that back and forth for a while. And it's kind of interesting, a lot of kids will start with a super small ball and then it will get bigger and bigger. Sometimes I ask them if they're able to communicate, what color is your ball?
Um, a question I ask a lot of kids when I start groups that I'm amazed by the answer, what color represents how you feel today? Um, because yes, as an adult, that's actually hard to answer. Some kids have the most, one kid told me that he was like the macaroni and cheese. Because, oh, that's amazing. He felt very neutral.
He was just kind of muted today. That's literally what he said. And then I've had a kid say, I'm lime green because I have as much energy as when I'm playing soccer, and that's the color of my jersey. Yeah, that's [00:27:00] amazing. Yes, but it's so different than, How are you doing today, ? They're just gonna say good, right?
[00:27:06] Kate Grandbois: Oh, it's so much more creative. There's so much more emotion and person personality. And personal experience involved in a question like that. I absolutely loved that.
[00:27:19] Ali Arena: And it just adds fun. Another one, I'm not gonna make you do this cause I feel like as an adult it's just uncomfortable, but it's called stone face.
And so you have a kid go up and he's stone face, he's not gonna have any reaction. And then we all pick a word that we can say to try to make him laugh. So our word, it could be, let's have it be pizza. So the only thing we could do is say pizza, to try to make stone face laugh. But you can do whatever you want with your body, right?
Or you can scream pizza, you can whisper pizza, you can say pizza far away. So again, I love these because it's you have to be in your body, you're thinking about your [00:28:00] nonverbals. Um, it's really great cuz kids laugh immediately. Stone face never lasts that long. Um, it's, and it's fun. It's fun.
What's great about it too is if I'm like, okay, everyone, let's pick a word and let's say Mary says pizza. I'd be like, oh, love pizza. Let's do pizza. And I'm moving quickly, right? So it's not like I, I don't, I try not to even let a kid get to a point. They're like, no, wait, I wanted it to be Spider-Man. Right?
Because again, you can't pick a wrong word. So if that were to happen, I'd say, great. Next word, spider-Man. Keep going and move it along. Um, so I'll play one more game with you. We did, we went over this, everybody. So we'll see. , .
Kate Grandbois:Okay, I'm ready.
Ali Arena: Okay, so this is called gift giving. So you could do this two ways. You could intentionally give a gi, give someone a gift they won't like. I would do this for someone who's very rigid, right? Who only sees a certain purpose in things. I would intentionally try to give them something they don't like. Someone who also maybe [00:29:00] has a hard time taking perspective. I would give them a gift that's super neutral, a lamp. And then for someone who I'm just trying to figure out what they do, like I try to give them gifts I think they like. So again, improv, you're not physically giving them anything. So for Kate, let's go with neutral. I'm gonna give Kate a lamp. All she has to do is say thank you. You have to say thank you every time cause it's a gift. And that's kind that Also teaches even if you get a gift at the holidays and it's not what you want and a lamp, you still say thank you.
Right, right. So you say thank you and what you can do with it. So Kate, here is your lamp.
[00:29:35] Kate Grandbois:Thank you so much for this lamp. I am going to put it in my closet for when I read. In my closet because my closet is really dark and, and there's no, there's no lamp in my closet.
[00:29:51] Ali Arena:I love that you have a cozy place in your closet for reading.
That's,
[00:29:56] Kate Grandbois: I tried to get a really creative answer cause love that I'm reading my closet, but I love [00:30:00] that there's sort of, the sky is the limit aspects of this in terms of what you come up with and there's no wrong answer. That's so great.
[00:30:07] Ali Arena: So Kate, can you give me a gift that's , that you think would, I wouldn't want, so kind of a crappy gift.
, kids have given me poop before. That's how,
[00:30:15] Kate Grandbois: Okay. okay.. Allie, I just got you this gift at the pet store. It's some cat litter.
[00:30:25] Ali Arena: Thank you. I am going to bring this to a shelter where they have cats because I don't have one. . Okay.
[00:30:32] Kate Grandbois: Right. I'm so glad, I'm so glad that you that you liked the gift I gave you
[00:30:35] Ali Arena: Yes.
So, see how it's, um, see how someone could, I could have been like, Kate, I don't have a cat. I have a dog. Right, right. , I could've given you attitude, but it's just the, it's the receptivity. It's the going back and forth. Um, the last thing I'll say, cause I know we have to kind of wrap up, is these games are meant to be short.
I'm not talking, you're doing these for 10 minutes, you're doing this. [00:31:00] Two to possibly three minutes. These aren't meant to be really long. They're just meant to establish some rapport, have fun, and either move on to a different game or move on to an intention. I might do this right before, if I was gonna read a book or something, I would do a game before and after the book.
[00:31:17] Kate Grandbois: I love this. I have one final question for you. Um, well, two final questions I guess. But the first is, when you are planning for therapy and you are interested in using improv in your therapy, and you obviously have a maybe more of a bank of games that you, that you pull from, do you have any strategies for how you match the game to maybe the targets or goals that you've, or objectives that you've written for the clients in your therapy room? How do you go about that process in terms of planning to use improv in therapy?
[00:31:52] Ali Arena: Yeah, you know, I think it's kind of similar to the trajectory that you take as a clinician, right? You're at a point where you're like, oh, this game works for this, a[00:32:00] board game, right. Um, I definitely have started to create my own little list. Um, the book, I'll have you reference the book Maya wrote with all of these games, she does a pretty good job of saying, I would use this for this goal. So you can start to pair it that way. Um, I also try to think about it too, what games work for my certain types of kiddos.
So, um, that helps me too, if I really have a lot of perspective taking kiddos, I might use certain games. Um, that for that age group, that's a little tough at times. And then, but perspective taking for a younger kid, that doesn't work. So I try to think about it with age too.
[00:32:40] Kate Grandbois: That makes a lot of sense.
For anybody who is listening, who is wanting to learn more about improv or would like to begin integrating improv into their therapy, what additional resources, I know you mentioned a book that, um, your friend Maya wrote. Can you tell us a little bit about the [00:33:00] book or maybe point us in some directions for where our listeners can learn?
[00:33:04] Ali Arena: Absolutely. So, um, again, that book was, she researched a bunch of social skills and improv groups and kind of looked at what games work. So there's that. Her and I run classes together a lot. Anyone is more than welcome to come observe and see kind of how that works. Um, and, you know, improv really is everywhere.
You were saying. There's Second City, there's Groundlings in LA um, there's groups all over. I would almost just say, take an improv class for yourself. Um, there's a lot online now because of Covid and just see, you know, what that experience is like for you.
[00:33:44] Kate Grandbois: That's such a great suggestion. Thank you so much for joining us.
I feel like we covered so much information in a short period of time. Thank you. But I think for me, having no experience with improv, even just thinking about it as a therapy tool, [00:34:00] that focuses on, you know, these core components, but also that there is no wrong answer that you can use it to improve. To have more fun when you're addressing some of these skills is a really powerful message and we really appreciate your time.
Thank you so much for joining us.
[00:34:18] Ali Arena: Of course. Thank you.
Outro
[00:34:20] Kate Grandbois: Thank you so much for joining us in today's episode, as always, you can use this episode for ASHA CEUs. You can also potentially use this episode for other credits, depending on the regulations of your governing body. To determine if this episode will count towards professional development in your area of study.
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Thank you so much for joining us and we hope to welcome you back here again soon.
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